Debian 12 Desktops have different commands

[johnlinux]

When using Debian 12 if you install live KDE ISO it has the Rsync command installed If you install XFCE it does not have the Rsync command. There are a few other commands but can anyone provide a reason why a desktop would have different commands located in /usr/sbin ?

I would expect the operating system commands to be constant with the exception of Desktop version command support. Rsync is a file transfer command.

 

[osprey]

When using Debian 12 if you install live KDE ISO it has the Rsync command installed If you install XFCE it does not have the Rsync command. There are a few other commands but can anyone provide a reason why a desktop would have different commands located in /usr/sbin ?

I would expect the operating system commands to be constant with the exception of Desktop version command support. Rsync is a file transfer command.

The expectation that "system commands ... be constant" in different versions of debian releases, whilst seeming reasonable, doesn't take account of the way in which different versions are created. Each version, be it KDE or xfce, has its own maintainers who decide on the selection of packages that will be included. The teams that maintain these versions have maintainer's web pages which may provide some details. Users are free to contact maintainers with comments, suggestions and requests.

Basically, since the distro is free and open source, run in the main by volunteers, the decisions that are made will have their own justifications, which may or may not be publicised. Such decisions however, may have little or no substantial effect because packages are freely available to users for download so any "disadvantage", if it exists, is really only at most, an inconvenience which is a small price to pay for a free fully-featured working computer installation.

 

[johnlinux]

The expectation that "system commands ... be constant" in different versions of debian releases, whilst seeming reasonable, doesn't take account of the way in which different versions are created. Each version, be it KDE or xfce, has its own maintainers who decide on the selection of packages that will be included. The teams that maintain these versions have maintainer's web pages which may provide some details. Users are free to contact maintainers with comments, suggestions and requests.

Basically, since the distro is free and open source, run in the main by volunteers, the decisions that are made will have their own justifications, which may or may not be publicised. Such decisions however, may have little or no substantial effect because packages are freely available to users for download so any "disadvantage", if it exists, is really only at most, an inconvenience which is a small price to pay for a free fully-featured working computer installation.

That does not explain why the live version has rsync command but the installed version removes the command.

 

[f33dm3bits]

That does not explain why the live version has rsync command but the installed version removes the command.

If it's a problem for you why not report to the Debian developers? Also Debian is known for minimalism and stability and Debian users like to do things themselves, so running a "apt install rsync" is not seen as a problem to their user-base.

Maybe because the installer and the live iso serve different purposes and are different tools for doing something with Debian and maybe the different iso's have different people working on them.

Rsync still missing from installed version 12.2 - Debian User Forums

Installation difference between ISO and live - Debian User Forums

I actually suspect the latter, as in different people working on different live iso's and the installer since it has the rsync in one of the live iso's. Why not just report it to the Debian developers instead of complaining about it here or just use apt to install it yourself?

Debian bug tracking system

 

[johnlinux]

If it's a problem for you why not report to the Debian developers? Also Debian is known for minimalism and stability and Debian users like to do things themselves, so running a "apt install rsync" is not seen as a problem to their user-base.

Maybe because the installer and the live iso serve different purposes and are different tools for doing something with Debian and maybe the different iso's have different people working on them.

Rsync still missing from installed version 12.2 - Debian User Forums

Installation difference between ISO and live - Debian User Forums

I actually suspect the latter, as in different people working on different live iso's and the installer since it has the rsync in one of the live iso's. Why not just report it to the Debian developers instead of complaining about it here or just use apt to install it yourself?

Debian bug tracking system

it was reported to Debian in version 12.1. The live version showcases the product and using XFCE in version 12 if you decide to install that same live XFCE version the installed version removes rsync. Yet the live version of KDE does not remove rsync on installation.

 

[f33dm3bits]

it was reported to Debian in version 12.1. The live version showcases the product and using XFCE in version 12 if you decide to install that same live XFCE version the installed version removes rsync. Yet the live version of KDE does not remove rsync on installation.

Nothing anyone here can do about it. Report it: https://www.debian.org/Bugs

 

[johnlinux]

I understand. I was interested if anyone had a possible idea as to why /usr/sbin commands are different for different desktop environments.

 

[wizardfromoz]

@f33dm3bits

...instead of complaining about it here...

is a little harsh. I do not see the OP as having complained at all, he is simply asking why, and if we know something.

I believe it is a valid question.

@johnlinux there are precedents across the board for this type of inconsistency with Linux distros, but that does not provide an answer for your question.

With Linux Mint, for example, the installer (Ubiquity) near the end of the process of installation, removes GParted (as does Ubuntu), which I believe to be a poor choice. Ubuntu used to even remove Synaptic Package Manager, which to my mind is also an essential tool.

That being said, you would have to ask the individual distributors for an official reason, and if you find same, perhaps you can share it with us? TIA.

We do have a Dev here, and by mentioning his userid, this will bring this thread to his attention, and he may have some input.

@GatorsFan

Cheers

Chris Turner
wizardfromoz

 

[f33dm3bits]

is a little harsh. I do not see the OP as having complained at all, he is simply asking why, and if we know something.

I believe it is a valid question.

First the question.

There are a few other commands but can anyone provide a reason why a desktop would have different commands located in /usr/sbin ?

Then OP gets an answer from @osprey, Then OP asks the same question again.

That does not explain why the live version has rsync command but the installed version removes the command.

Then I give an answer. Then OP comments saying the same thing again.

The live version showcases the product and using XFCE in version 12 if you decide to install that same live XFCE version the installed version removes rsync. Yet the live version of KDE does not remove rsync on installation.

How it is that not complaining, asking the same thing more than once.

Since OP said this in their first post.

When using Debian 12 if you install live KDE ISO it has the Rsync command installed If you install XFCE it does not have the Rsync command.

Answer is most likely what I have said in reply #4 but can't be sure because I am not a Debian developer.

maybe the different iso's have different people working on them.

I actually suspect the latter, as in different people working on different live iso's and the installer since it has the rsync in one of the live iso's.

That being said, you would have to ask the individual distributors for an official reason, and if you find same, perhaps you can share it with us? TIA.

That's why I've been saying to report it to the Debian developers as in no one is going to know for sure if the answer is correct or not. I wasn't trying to be mean or unhelpful either, otherwise I would have not taken the time to write out a reply about their question.

 

[wizardfromoz]

...asking the same thing more than once.

It wasn't, IMO, rather it contained a different version of the question, but we are best off to agree to differ.

We're good

Cheers

Chris

 

[f33dm3bits]

Why not just report it to the Debian developers instead of complaining about it here or just use apt to install it yourself?
Debian bug tracking system

is a little harsh. I do not see the OP as having complained at all, he is simply asking why, and if we know something.

I had a poor word choice at the time of replying, I should have used the word "asking", because back to my most recent reply.

How it is that not complaining, asking the same thing more than once.

Same here.

That's why I've been saying to report it to the Debian developers as in no one is going to know for sure if the answer is correct or not. I wasn't trying to be mean or unhelpful either, otherwise I would have not taken the time to write out a reply about their question.

 

[wizardfromoz]

I bought you a beer, not sure if it is Heineken

 

[GatorsFan]

I would expect the operating system commands to be constant with the exception of Desktop version command support. Rsync is a file transfer command.

The simple answer is it either did not get installed due to forgetfulness, or it was not intended in the first place - I know I have forgot to put things in my Expirion Linux sometimes that should have been there - but it is up to the lead developer as to what goes in and what does not so there may be inconsistencies over different desktops, if forgotten it may be updated at the next point release

 

[johnlinux]

The simple answer is it either did not get installed due to forgetfulness, or it was not intended in the first place - I know I have forgot to put things in my Expirion Linux sometimes that should have been there - but it is up to the lead developer as to what goes in and what does not so there may be inconsistencies over different desktops, if forgotten it may be updated at the next point release

You have not understood the question. this is a fresh install no user on any distrubution has the option of deciding which linux commands get installed. All that was performed is disk partition, selection of language and time zone and that is it.

 

[CaffeineAddict]

this is a fresh install no user on any distrubution has the option of deciding which linux commands get installed. All that was performed is disk partition, selection of language and time zone and that is it.

It depends on how you install Debian, there is "expert option" during install where you can fine tune what gets installed, you can even run a terminal after installation but before system is booted to install additional software.