I love the Linux desktop, but that doesn't mean I don't see its problems all too well.

Tolkem

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Hi, everyone! Hope you're all having a nice life! :)

I just read this post https://www.theregister.com/2022/06/08/linux_desktop_blues/ and found it kind of interesting.
An excerpt:
None of the major Linux distributors – Canonical, Red Hat, and SUSE – really care about the Linux desktop. Sure, they have them. They're also major desktop influencers. But their cash comes from servers, containers, the cloud, and the Internet of Things (IoT). The desktop? Please. We should just be glad they spend as many resources as they do on them.
 


dos2unix

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That's not happening. Linus Torvalds already told us why we'll never see a classic Linux desktop on every PC: fragmentation.

If that's the reason, I'd just as soon leave it like it is. Freedom of choice.
Once it all becomes the same, it becomes a monoply all over again.
 
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Tolkem

Tolkem

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SlowCoder

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None of the major Linux distributors – Canonical, Red Hat, and SUSE – really care about the Linux desktop. Sure, they have them. They're also major desktop influencers. But their cash comes from servers, containers, the cloud, and the Internet of Things (IoT). The desktop? Please. We should just be glad they spend as many resources as they do on them.
I don't necessarily agree with this statement. Having the same server and desktop architecture means less versioning and update schedule issues, better compatibility, and better vendor support.

Fragmentation IS an issue. ~270 distros. How many of those actually deserve to be in the count? A great majority of distros seem to be simple copies of other distros, re-spun with a different default GUI, or just have some minor GUI tweaks. Slap a name on it and call it a distro. They leech users away from actual innovators. But ... I support their right to do so, because that freedom is how innovation and education happens.
 

mrcrossroads

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KGIII

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Even in the Linux market, the Linux desktop is just a tiny piece of the pie.
 
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Tolkem

Tolkem

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The real computing smarts will be in the cloud.
This, I can see it happening in a not so distant future, and I think it already is, to some extent; There are some handy and powerful tools using web technologies that have no match on a desktop OS, specially when it comes to work with different file/document formats.
 

f33dm3bits

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There is no cloud just someone else's computer, the cloud is just some term hyped up by managers and the marketing department. Fragmentation is not much of an issue, what you can install on one distribution you can most likely install on other distribution just with another package manager and/or with Snaps, Flatpaks or AppImages. In Arch you can install Teams using thte PKGBUILD from the AUR, it basically downloads the deb file form the original source location does something and than builds a package that can be install on any Arch based distribution. So this can be done across other distributions as well, so if one something is packages for either rpm or deb most other distributions can reuse it just like the previous mentioned example of Teams.
 
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TheProf

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The Linux desktop has come a long way over the past 5-10years... I still feel like there has been significant improvements over user experience. It might not be as popular as Windows on PCs, but it is much further along than it ever was.

I also feel like the steam deck will push the envelope each time and with time things should be getting better and better. So the year of the desktop is probably at meme at this point, but regardless of how much adoption Linux desktop is receiving, it is always moving forward, today is better than yesterday and so on.
 
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Tolkem

Tolkem

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There is no cloud just someone else's computer, the cloud is just some term hyped up by managers and the marketing department.
Well, I think we can all agree we all know the term "cloud" doesn't literally mean there's a "cloud" where everything gets stored, but rather just a word for a "managed hosting platform".
Fragmentation is not much of an issue
I think "fragmentation" here is referring to having a "platform". And while we "end users" might not see a problem with that "fragmentation", developers have a different point of view:
https://blogs.gnome.org/tbernard/2019/12/04/there-is-no-linux-platform-1/
 

Fanboi

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"The Desktop" is a dying notion. Everything is moving toward mobile for daily function and cloud for more power-hungary or data-consuming activities. Even streaming interactive stuff like games has been experimental for a while. Of course servers are the main focus. If Desktop Linux was where it is now, but twenty years ago, we'd see leaps. But where's the incentive for a minority within a minority? Common business sense. It's up to us to move the desktop forward. That's the nature of FOSS; you want something, make it happen because anyone can.
 

f33dm3bits

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I think "fragmentation" here is referring to having a "platform". And while we "end users" might not see a problem with that "fragmentation", developers have a different point of view:
https://blogs.gnome.org/tbernard/2019/12/04/there-is-no-linux-platform-1/
Platforms have standardization, Linux has some but not much compared to MacOS and Windows. However back to my point. How is it a problem if developers can create a deb package or an rpm package for opensource software. Which then the community will use to create package for distributions with other package formats and otherwise they will still have the choice of releasing a Snap, AppImage or Flatpak. Let me give you another example, 2 weeks ago Plex released an official Linux Plex client distributed as a Snap. Two days later it was available in the AUR ,it is now also available als a Flatpak and as an rpm package in rpmfusion(just with a different name).
 

SlowCoder

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"The Desktop" is a dying notion.
And this is a scary idea. I figure I've got about 20 years (old and grizzled) before I stop caring any more where my data is stored, or how it's used. I'd like to think I'll still have some form of desktop/laptop until then, where my most prized and private data is kept.
 
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Tolkem

Tolkem

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Platforms have standardization, Linux has some but not much compared to MacOS and Windows.
Exactly, and that is what I think both authors; register's post/article and "there's no Linux platform" series posts respectively are referring to.
How is it a problem if developers can create a deb package or an rpm package for opensource software.
I don't think the problem is whether a pkg can exist in different formats; .deb, rpm, .gz, .tgz, .apk, etc, etc, but rather having [developers] to use different tools and procedures; different SDKs/toolkits, different programming languages, different packaging standards, different packaging policies, etc, etc. This isn't about us, end users, but about them; developers, who are the people providing all the software we use and enjoy day by day.
They say this is what snaps, flatpaks and appimages were created for; 1 pkg = 1 toolkit, 1 policy, 1 packaging procedure. And let's not forget, there are and have been other options/attempts to address this situation, too:

And there will probably be more in the future. I believe a "Linux platform" might not be such a bad idea, as long as everyone gets what [I think] they want; end users: freedom of choice (even when it's limited to only your distro of, yeah, choice), developers: less time packaging, more time working on improvements and implement new features, distributors/vendors: independence to keep doing their own thing while still providing a way to "cross-install" different packages on other distros. Standard and well established tools used today don't have to disappear, people just have to adapt to the new ones available.
 

mrcrossroads

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"The Desktop" is a dying notion. Everything is moving toward mobile for daily function and cloud for more power-hungary or data-consuming activities. Even streaming interactive stuff like games has been experimental for a while. Of course servers are the main focus. If Desktop Linux was where it is now, but twenty years ago, we'd see leaps. But where's the incentive for a minority within a minority? Common business sense. It's up to us to move the desktop forward. That's the nature of FOSS; you want something, make it happen because anyone can.
For me the term Desktop has morphed in its meaning anyway. I call the "home screen" on my table "the desktop" too. Same for phone. Desktop for me is the main screen of most computing devices. A lot has changed since the early 90's.
 

Fanboi

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And this is a scary idea. I figure I've got about 20 years (old and grizzled) before I stop caring any more where my data is stored, or how it's used. I'd like to think I'll still have some form of desktop/laptop until then, where my most prized and private data is kept.
Well, a new laptop would probably just survive, but the storage might not -- unless you buy server-grade hdds (expensive). Cheapest is to buy up and hoard parts/notebooks and lots of storage devices, lol. As I've oft said here, that's what I plan (not just privacy, but functionality -- let's face it, when turd hits fan, we're gonna be stuck with "modern" UI which will likely be a maze for anyone under 30 if I use today's embedded stuff to go by).
 

Lord Boltar

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1655519741164.png

Why would anyone would want to store their personal information in the cloud is beyond me - but hey that's just me

Desktop - a computer that sits on a desk
Laptop - a small computer that you can set on your lap
Seems easy enough to me

When I made my Expirion Linux I did it because I wanted certain things which Ubuntu or Debian either had a whole bunch of stuff I did not want or not enough of some things I wanted so I made my own from them - I did not have to put it out their on the Internet, but a couple of friends of mine talked me into it so I did - sometimes to be honest I wish I never did put it out there on the Net, then I would not have to keep updating or upgrading them - and not to mention the complainers an whiners that you get if something is missing which they wanted or something other issue they are having - I just tell them to go build their own Linux then. Because you can and that is what is great about Linux
 

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I doubt that desktop OSes will vanish. On desktop PCs and notebooks you have a big screen, big keyboard - all that is convenient and sometimes the only option when you need some kind of work done (even gaming). Mobile devices are good, but they are not so powerful and their screens are quite small. So, I accepted this and simply enjoy alternatives to Windows. The important fact is that only Linux is flexible: you can do (or get) almost everything you want it to be, that is why there are so many Linux-based distros. Of course, there are downsides of Linux world (I mean as a software), but that is great we already have alternatives. Thanks to people who spent their time of life to do and continue to do that great job.
 

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Cloud is convenient for mobility. You can work on (or use) the same documents on different devices in different locations and don't need to think about copying from one device to another.
 

mrcrossroads

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I doubt that desktop OSes will vanish. On desktop PCs and notebooks you have a big screen, big keyboard - all that is convenient and sometimes the only option when you need some kind of work done (even gaming). Mobile devices are good, but they are not so powerful and their screens are quite small. So, I accepted this and simply enjoy alternatives to Windows. The important fact is that only Linux is flexible: you can do (or get) almost everything you want it to be, that is why there are so many Linux-based distros. Of course, there are downsides of Linux world (I mean as a software), but that is great we already have alternatives. Thanks to people who spent their time of life to do and continue to do that great job.

I think in 25 years desktops will be a novelity device like the iPad was when it first came out. By 2050 they'll be virtually extinct. As us old school folks begin dying up and the mobile first generation takes over.
 
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