Install Grub to secondary location or (build a new Distro)...?

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WinterStreet

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O.k. I got a Laptop from someone, but it had Windows 10 on it and I have made it a personal mission to NEVER have Microsoft on a computer in my possession so I nuked it. In doing so I found that the computer would not let me install anything except windows. Being as anti-Microsoft as I am I spent two weeks trying all the NORMAL options to get Linux to install to find out that this computer is as strange as I am. :)

I would make a Live USB and this computer would see it as completely full.(Frustrating as Downloading other Distros to try gets tricky) I tried several Distros with and without internet and even tried some of the live UBS's and their installs on a second computer. (Lo and behold the free space showed properly on the second computer) So I found the site that suggests a specific Distro to solve my problem and it worked!

So now comes me next issue the new Distro is a Fedora base and I'm more comfortable with Debian Base Software. So I have come up with three options that may work for me.

1. Figure out how to figure out how to get a live USB installation to install grub into the secondary location as Endless OS does making it possible to install as installing grub before-hand results the live USB wipes the esp partitions beforehand even though it is not supposed to and apparently does not install enough to boot into if I install Grub after the install fails.

2. Make a completely new Debian based Distro that will be installed in the making of it and I would just have to make a Live USB from it so I could install it in case of...

3. Figure out how to change the kernels and whatever else I need to change to make the Fedora base that I'm not so comfortable with into a Debian base that I am comfortable with. Again I would make a Live USB in case of...
 
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wizardfromoz

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Moving this to Getting Started

Welcome to linux.org

Chris Turner
wizardfromoz
 
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WinterStreet

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Moving this to Getting Started

Welcome to linux.org

Chris Turner
wizardfromoz
I've been doing these installs for ten years. Puttimg this in "Getting Started is going to get me responces of all of the thing that have been covered over and over again. These responses will ignore that I HAVE tried the basics. My issue is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub-installer/+bug/1832282 and Historically this is abnormal and they will give me the NORMAL fixes that might work for others, but not me.
 

KGIII

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Puttimg this in "Getting Started is going to get me responces of all of the thing that have been covered over and over again.

The sub-forum it is in won't have much of an impact on the quality or quantity of responses you get. The forum really isn't that large. Everyone reads everything - more or less.

The only exception is if you post in the Kali sub-forum, where many of us will ignore you.
 

Condobloke

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O.k. I got a Laptop from someone, but it had Windows 10 on it and I have made it a personal mission to NEVER have Microsoft on a computer in my possession so I nuked it. In doing so I found that the computer would not let me install anything except windows.
The above is a mouthful. It usually elicits a 'groan' from most members here.

It also raises several questions.....and all this, before we even get close to your questions.

1. Details of the laptop. Make & Model. etc etc.

2. How....did you 'nuke' it ?...detail please.

3.Exactly what was the behaviour you saw that told you only windows could be installed and nothing else?

I note that the link you provided, (link) has no conclusion.....despite being 3 years old.
 
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WinterStreet

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As EVERY one of those questions is explained in the post, I'm going to say you may want to go back and actually READ it to get your answers.

IT IS NOT AN UEFI OR LEGACY BOOT ISSUE (I HAVE TRIED IT BOTH WAYS AND NOT MY REQUEST!
 
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f33dm3bits

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1. Figure out how to figure out how to get a live USB installation to install grub into the secondary location as Endless OS does making it possible to install as installing grub before-hand results the live USB wipes the esp partitions beforehand even though it is not supposed to and apparently does not install enough to boot into if I install Grub after the install fails.

2. Make a completely new Debian based Distro that will be installed in the making of it and I would just have to make a Live USB from it so I could install it in case of...

3. Figure out how to change the kernels and whatever else I need to change to make the Fedora base that I'm not so comfortable with into a Debian base that I am comfortable with. Again I would make a Live USB in case of...
Your wording and phrasing doesn't make much sense to me but I'll try and answer.

1. I still don't understand why you want to install Grub on a secondary drive? What's so bad about wiping the current esp/efi partition, it sounded like you wanted to get rid of Windows on the new laptop someone gave you? If not most installers have an options for setting up a customized partition setup where you can configure what you want including the efi partition.

2. It sounds like you want a bootable usb drive that you can install your new laptop from and want to keep in case of emergency so that you can boot of it? You can just create a bootable usb drive on the second computer you have. Or are you planning to create a new Linux distribution?

3. You aren't making much sense here? You can change kernel as you can on any distribution, by adding the right third party repo or sources if needed and then install the kernel using your package manager by either using the cli or the gui.

About Grub, or are you talking about wanting to install Grub on the fallback location because of the bugzilla link you shared? What you could do is just install the distribution you want, than after installation boot from live usb again or into rescue mode(depending on the distribution)and then chroot into your installation and then reinstall grub from there but this time in the fall back location.

- Normal location Grub install: grub-install --target=x86_64-efi --efi-directory=esp --bootloader-id=GRUB
- Fallback location Grub-install: grub-install --target=x86_64-efi --efi-directory=esp --removable

Arch allows you to choose how to install Grub during installation because the installation process is you running a set of commands in order as the installation process. I manually had to install grub into the fallback location for one of my systems before because my system wouldn't recognize the normal grub install location either.

If I am not understanding you correctly please rephrase and reword the problems you are having because most of what you say in your original post doesn't make much sense.
As EVERY one of those questions is explained in the post, I'm going to say you may want to go back and actually READ it to get your answers.

IT IS NOT AN UEFI OR LEGACY BOOT ISSUE (I HAVE TRIED IT BOTH WAYS AND NOT MY REQUEST!
See it's not just me that doesn't understand the problems you are having or else @Condobloke wouldn't have asked you those questions.

I've been doing these installs for ten years. Puttimg this in "Getting Started is going to get me responces of all of the thing that have been covered over and over again. These responses will ignore that I HAVE tried the basics.
Having an attitude towards a mod/admin isn't going to help you around here either...
 
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Old Tom Bombadil

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Puttimg this in "Getting Started is going to get me responces of all of the thing that have been covered over and over again. These responses will ignore that I HAVE tried the basics.
You're looking at this wrong. "Installing" Linux is indeed the "Getting Started" first step with Linux... not that YOU are just getting started. Lighten up! ;)


So I found the site that suggests a specific Distro to solve my problem and it worked!

So now comes me next issue the new Distro is a Fedora base and I'm more comfortable with Debian Base Software. So I have come up with three options that may work for me.
Or a 4th option: Learn Fedora. It's not hard.

I've been a Debian-based user for over 25 years, but I switched to Fedora about 8 months ago for a similar reason... it worked on new hardware I got when other distros didn't. Substituting "dnf" for "apt" is the biggest difference, but it sinks in quickly. Enable the Fusion free and non-free repos and Fedora is really a top notch operating system.

Some hardware is quirky. In some cases you can find a solution, but in some cases there is no solution. How long you struggle and let this frustrate you is up to you... especially when you have already found a solution that works.

Good luck.
 
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WinterStreet

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Your wording and phrasing doesn't make much sense to me but I'll try and answer.

1. I still don't understand why you want to install Grub on a secondary drive? What's so bad about wiping the current esp/efi partition, it sounded like you wanted to get rid of Windows on the new laptop someone gave you? If not most installers have an options for setting up a customized partition setup where you can configure what you want including the efi partition.

2. It sounds like you want a bootable usb drive that you can install your new laptop from and want to keep in case of emergency so that you can boot of it? You can just create a bootable usb drive on the second computer you have. Or are you planning to create a new Linux distribution?

3. You aren't making much sense here? You can change kernel as you can on any distribution, by adding the right third party repo or sources if needed and then install the kernel using your package manager by either using the cli or the gui.

About Grub, or are you talking about wanting to install Grub on the fallback location because of the bugzilla link you shared? What you could do is just install the distribution you want, than after installation boot from live usb again or into rescue mode(depending on the distribution)and then chroot into your installation and then reinstall grub from there but this time in the fall back location.

- Normal location Grub install: grub-install --target=x86_64-efi --efi-directory=esp --bootloader-id=GRUB
- Fallback location Grub-install: grub-install --target=x86_64-efi --efi-directory=esp --removable

Arch allows you to choose how to install Grub during installation because the installation process is you running a set of commands in order as the installation process. I manually had to install grub into the fallback location for one of my systems before because my system wouldn't recognize the normal grub install location either.

If I am not understanding you correctly please rephrase and reword the problems you are having because most of what you say in your original post doesn't make much sense.

See it's not just me that doesn't understand the problems you are having or else @Condobloke wouldn't have asked you those questions.


Having an attitude towards a mod/admin isn't going to help you around here either...
I love how i can say that "My computer DELETES the EFI/esp partition due to a BUG and is making the computer look in the SECONDARY or FALLBACK directory. I cannot CHROOT the drive to install it manually. I DO NOT WANT TO INSTALL IT ON ANOTHER DRIVE. I WANT TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET THE LIVE USB INSTALL TO INSTALL GRUB TO IT'S SECONDARY LOCATION ON THE SAME HARD DRIVE. Not a Legacy or UEFI issue a bug is Preventing installs MANUALLY and the computer forces the Live software to look in the wrong location to install normally with Live USB's

I have been doing this, for a Decade now, so I'm pretty sure human error is out as a concern as one of the THOUSAND times I tried had to be done right and as it was different software. Until I found one that installed grub in the SECONDARY install location EVERY ONE failed and now I would like to figure out how to get what I WANT on there to install.
 

SlowCoder

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The only exception is if you post in the Kali sub-forum, where many of us will ignore you.
Truth. (this made me guffaw)
 

SlowCoder

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@WinterStreet I think I understand your frustration now. It's like going to the doctor and explaining your ills, and the doctor wants to do what fixes the symptoms 90% of the time. But you've already done that. Now you need specialist knowledge, which fewer of us have. I'm not one of those specialists, but I feel ya'.

1. Details of the laptop. Make & Model. etc etc.

2. How....did you 'nuke' it ?...detail please.

3.Exactly what was the behaviour you saw that told you only windows could be installed and nothing else?
As EVERY one of those questions is explained in the post, I'm going to say you may want to go back and actually READ it to get your answers.
Except ... maybe I'm daft ... but I don't see any of these questions answered in your OP.

We're not trying to be difficult. But info is required, especially in a complicated situation like this.

Oh, and it looks like I dodged this bullet ... one of my machines is a Lenovo 330-15IKB.
 
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WinterStreet

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@WinterStreet I think I understand your frustration now. It's like going to the doctor and explaining your ills, and the doctor wants to do what fixes the symptoms 90% of the time. But you've already done that. Now you need specialist knowledge, which fewer of us have. I'm not one of those specialists, but I feel ya'.



Except ... maybe I'm daft ... but I don't see any of these questions answered in your OP.

We're not trying to be difficult. But info is required, especially in a complicated situation like this.

Oh, and it looks like I dodged this bullet ... one of my machines is a Lenovo 330-15IKB.
That is exactly a simile that works to explain my issue. One can only say they are allergic opium and get prescriptions for Codine so many times...

As I said the title of the link I posted is LENOVO IDEAPAD 320 15IK... And the fact that no operating system other than Endless OS because it installs itself in the secondary grub install location.

I have time and again said that the ONE partition I am UNABLE to chroot into is any partition with a boot flag attached to it and this could be a label or the word BOOT in any way associated with it. If I make the directory and then attach the flags, the entire partition is wiped. Writing images fails so the only way I can find that works (out of the thousand times I tried) is to install with a Live USB install that uses the secondary grub install location to make the computer bootable.
 
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f33dm3bits

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I love how i can say that "My computer DELETES the EFI/esp partition due to a BUG and is making the computer look in the SECONDARY or FALLBACK directory. I cannot CHROOT the drive to install it manually. I DO NOT WANT TO INSTALL IT ON ANOTHER DRIVE. I WANT TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET THE LIVE USB INSTALL TO INSTALL GRUB TO IT'S SECONDARY LOCATION ON THE SAME HARD DRIVE. Not a Legacy or UEFI issue a bug is Preventing installs MANUALLY and the computer forces the Live software to look in the wrong location to install normally with Live USB's

I have been doing this, for a Decade now, so I'm pretty sure human error is out as a concern as one of the THOUSAND times I tried had to be done right and as it was different software. Until I found one that installed grub in the SECONDARY install location EVERY ONE failed and now I would like to figure out how to get what I WANT on there to install.
If the normal location doesn't work the only other option is to manually install Grub in the fallback location. Quit using all caps as if you are shouting at someone that owes you a something because no one here owes you anything. The fallback location is there for a reason if you don't want to use it then it's your problem. Install Arch the Arch way if you aren't satisfied with the installer always picking the default location or if chrooting in any other distribution doesn't work for you. That way you can manually specify during installation where you want to install Grub.
 
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WinterStreet

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And again I am trying to figure out how to tell the live installer how I want it to install grub. I am being prevented, by the computer itself, from installing in a manual fashion so all these posts telling me to chroot into x directory end in epic fails as the computer itself is blocking that route.

I have tried all ways that I can think of and found the one way that it worked was to Live USB install a specific install that I would prefer not to use if I can figure out how to enter the location Grub to install, but instead of telling me how to get what I want and where to put it and what to put there people are telling me how to do things that I have just said I cannot because the computer has been blocking every way to do that.

As far as the caps it has been variations of this very sentence and to date exactly one person has gotten a glimmer of a clue. People are more concerned with the format than the content as they will spend hours telling me to shorted my post and how to do something I just stated I didn't have the ability to do.
 

KGIII

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Truth. (this made me guffaw)

I read pretty much everything posted - or at least skim it. I sometimes let stuff slide based on intent and severity, but I digress...

Just because I read everything doesn't mean I'll respond. Even if I know the answer, or have a good idea how to solve the issue, doesn't mean I'll respond. If you're asking how to mount a drive in the Kali sub-forum, I'm probably not gonna answer.

I'm not actually a jerk, I just value how I spend my time. Other than moderation, my time is not obligated to anyone. I don't mind helping a new person (I've spent tens of thousands of hours doing so over the years, including my own site aiming to do just that), but I don't want to invest time doing something that has historically meant I was throwing my time away. Sure, everyone is different, but history tells me what to expect and I'm a big fan of math.
 

wizardfromoz

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Gotta couple of questions for the OP.
  1. Are you planning to keep Windows or nuke it?
  2. Can you use GParted to take some screenshots of each drive you have, including the USB stick, and post them here?
  3. Which distro did you want to install - Endless, Fedora or other?
I would make a Live USB and this computer would see it as completely full.

That is par for the course.

If you wish to burn several distros to one stick to try, you will need a multibooting solution such as Ventoy, Multibootusb or the French product Multisystem.

Cheers

Wizard
 

Fanboi

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Admonishment

As EVERY one of those questions is explained in the post, I'm going to say you may want to go back and actually READ it to get your answers.

IT IS NOT AN UEFI OR LEGACY BOOT ISSUE (I HAVE TRIED IT BOTH WAYS AND NOT MY REQUEST!
And "I'm going to say you may want to" try changing the tone of your posts. Everyone on this forum is not here for your convenience.

I love how i can say that "My computer DELETES the EFI/esp partition due to a BUG and is making the computer look in the SECONDARY or FALLBACK directory. I cannot CHROOT the drive to install it manually. I DO NOT WANT TO INSTALL IT ON ANOTHER DRIVE. I WANT TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET THE LIVE USB INSTALL TO INSTALL GRUB TO IT'S SECONDARY LOCATION ON THE SAME HARD DRIVE. Not a Legacy or UEFI issue a bug is Preventing installs MANUALLY and the computer forces the Live software to look in the wrong location to install normally with Live USB's

I have been doing this, for a Decade now, so I'm pretty sure human error is out as a concern as one of the THOUSAND times I tried had to be done right and as it was different software. Until I found one that installed grub in the SECONDARY install location EVERY ONE failed and now I would like to figure out how to get what I WANT on there to install.
...and I'll also say turn down the caps -- and, again, the attitude -- and explain things in simple form. Using lengthily-constructed sentences for technical problems lends a lot of ambiguity to your questions, partially owing to the nature of the English language, partially owing to your lack of knowledge in using correct punctuation, but mostly the way sarcasm blends into question, which, in turn, blends into answer, which blends back into sarcasm, which evolves into condescension, which is quite ironic given that your are targeting said condescension towards people you are enlisting the help of to solve a problem that you cannot. BTW: If "My Computer deletes the EFI partition" then it's a firmware question, not a Linux one, let's be clear (and this is a Linux forum, not a Lenovo firmware forum).
Okay, enough bottom-spanking (but you're lucky I'm not a mod)...

Getting to the point...

- Now, from what I understand, you have a problem with your EFI partition. 800MB is plenty. As a rule, I use 512. EFI files are tiny executables and you can fit dozens on 512. I only use it as a round number, lol.

- Firstly, you need to get the output of fdisk -l.

- Secondly, I was just speaking about boot problems to someone else and if efibootmgr is giving you an I/O error just by running efibootmgr then that has nothing to do with your EFI partition and everything to do with your BIOS. Chances are that you have Secure Boot enabled or something equally mundane that you've overlooked in your haste. It happens to the best of us. If not that, you will have to boot into your BIOS and manually delete the boot entries. Worst case: you may have to do a CMOS reset, which is fine for a PC, but for your notebook, it'll be a pain.

- Thirdly, if I misunderstood your question/rant, then it is your failure to word it concisely. Start from the beginning and rephrase it simply and clearly, without Caps Lock yelling.

- Assuming you've gotten this far, let us know from there. Do not forget to post all the information concisely and neatly, with a little more specificity than you have done so far, and sans keyboard rage. TBH you are lucky people are still helping you.[/icode]
 

wizardfromoz

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Palm to forehead (thanks James) - I was going to ask about Secure Boot and Fast Boot at #16, but likely would have remembered once I got a response back on keeping Windows or not.

Wiz
 

f33dm3bits

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And again I am trying to figure out how to tell the live installer how I want it to install grub.
You can't the live installer follows a set of instructions and all of them seem to be setup to use the default efi location. The only way you are going to get around it is if you either created your own distribution that doesn't use of one the installers where you are running into this issue. Or if you install either Arch or Gentoo where you have to manually install grub during the installation process.
As far as the caps it has been variations of this very sentence and to date exactly one person has gotten a glimmer of a clue. People are more concerned with the format than the content as they will spend hours telling me to shorted my post and how to do something I just stated I didn't have the ability to do.
From the start even the English speakers here haven't gotten a clue what problem(s) you are running into because of the way you have worded and phrased your issues and English isn't my first language either. I have tried to reply to what I think you are running into. In response you start yelling and complaining instead of trying to rephrase your issues so that people can actually understand your post.

 

Lord Boltar

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1. Figure out how to figure out how to get a live USB installation to install grub into the secondary location as Endless OS does making it possible to install as installing grub before-hand results the live USB wipes the esp partitions beforehand even though it is not supposed to and apparently does not install enough to boot into if I install Grub after the install fails.copy grub into the secondary location

X is the drive (letter) on which you want GRUB to write the boot information. Normally users should not include a partition number, which would produce an error message as the command would attempt to write the information to a partition.

sudo grub-install /dev/sdX # Example:
Code:
sudo grub-install /dev/sda

This will rewrite the MBR information to point to the current installation and rewrite some GRUB 2 files (which are already working). Since it isn't done during execution of the previous command, running
Code:
sudo update-grub
after the install will ensure GRUB 2's menu is up-to-date. When using the grub-install command, the boot information is updated and written to the designated drive, missing - but not corrupted or intentionally deleted - files are restored. Specifically the core.img, grubenv, and device.map are updated and missing modules restored. If missing, the grub folder will be recreated. The grub-install command does not generate a new GRUB 2 menu (grub.cfg).
 
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