Owning knowledge?

dos2unix

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 3, 2019
Messages
3,232
Reaction score
2,983
Credits
28,464
As just about everyone who frequents this site very often knows, I have been writing a lot of tutorials and articles lately.
These are mostly basic commands for newbies and beginners, but sometimes a person who is familiar with the command
might learn a new flag or option they didn't know about before.

..anyway...

I was recently asked a few times, do I use use AI to create these articles? I answered no. But that's not toally accurate, I do use AI to check my spelling, layout the format of the content, and check my grammar ( i am notorious for leaving important words out of sentences ).
But I tell AI what I want to say, I give it the commands I want to use, the flags I want to use as examples, and the sample output generally comes my computers.

But then I got to thinking... how do I know what I know? If AI didn't tell me, how did I learn it?
I've been using Linux since 93/94, and UNIX/Solaris a few years before that. I had an Apple II and a Commodore 64 long before anyone
ever heard of Microsoft or Linux. When I first started using Linux, it wasn't ever really a distro per se. We downloaded packages emailed
developers, looked at man pages and help files. We read a LOT of README files and tried to figure out what they meant. There wasn't even really a standard of how these files should look yet. There was a lot of trial and error during these years, I didn't really know what I was doing to be honest and I blew a lot of things up, erased hard drives, removed network interfaces, deleted applications, etc... but hey, I learned a lot doing these things.

Then came the O'Reilly book phase. I still own over 30 over these even today. That's not counting the ones I have lost or given away. I actually met a couple of authors of some of these books and even worked with one of them. I asked him how he learned all the stuff he knew about that particular subject. It was lot like the way I learned. He called developers, he emailed them and asked questions. He read help files and man pages. He tried things and broke things. He said it took nearly 3 years to write his book.

Then came the yahoo and google phase. At first they weren't really very helpful, because nobody knew anything about Linux and GNU.
But after aperiod of a few years, communities started to develop. There were user groups and shared knowledge. Eventually sites like stackExchange, reddit, and linuxQuestions popped up. It was getting to the point that anybody could look up anything about anything.

About this time companies were hiring "professional" Linux admins. Looking back at those days, I'm not sure how professional I really was, but I thought I was. I thought I knew everything there was to know, but.... it turns out I didn't know a lot of things. I took courses and classes, I got Cisco certified, I got Redhat certified, I got my CompTIA+, I got my GCUX. These cost me a lot of money to take the courses, and a lot of money to take the tests to get certified. I invested thousands of dollars in learning what I know. (If I paid for it, do I own it?)

I still do a lot of these things even today. Which goes back to the question.. how does someone learn what they know?
I school I learned about english, math, geography and science from teachers, but where did they learn it from? College professors who learned it from someone else. I can tell you the way to get to my favorite restaurant from my house. I've fdriven there at least a hundred times. I drove there before google maps told me how to drive there. (So then, how I did I know how to get there?)

I how did learn how to drive a car, to ride a motorcycle, to go fishing? Someone taught me. But in the Linux world, I mostly taught myself. The problem is, now I have google maps to tell me stuff I already know, like how to get to my house.

Who owns that knowledge? Google or me? Back to the original question... how did I learn about Linux commands. As mentioned earlier, I read books,, and I used google. Have I ever used AI to learn something about Linux? The totally honest answer here is... I don't know. AI has been around a couple of years now. It's getting better. But let's say I did use AI to find out something about Linux, maybe the syntax of a command or something. Maybe I did this a year ago, or maybe six months ago. I honestly don't remember... honestly. I have looked a lot of stuff up over the years. But even if I did use AI, who owns that knowledge? AI or me?

I suppose it's one thing to say I going to write an article today and have AI create the whole thing from scratch about a subject I know nothing or very little about. In that case, I would say I learned it from AI. But if it's a command I've used a hundred times over the last 30 years, who do I give the credit to? O'Reilly, the developer? The man page? Google? StackExchane? or now a days... AI.

I know police officers and lawyers use phrases like artcle 459b of page 173, paragraph subsection D. I don't have that kind of memory, I don't know where I learned how to use sed to replace text, I do have an O'Reilly book about sed published in 1997. Chances are I learned from that book, but was it page 41 or page 57? Was it the first paragraph or the last sentence? Does O'Reilly own that knowledge or do I?

In the Music industry, there is something called the public domain. Songs like Happy Birthday, and Twinkle little star. Nobody owns the copyright to them anymore so anyone can use them free of charge. Linux/GNU is supposed to be FOSS ( FREE ) is it all already public domain knowledge? At some point do some Linux commands become such public knowledge that they are simply public domain?

But looking back at the articles I've written did I ever use AI to glean any knowledge about them? maybe, probably. But I honestly don't remember, so what do I do then, add a disclaimer at the bottom of every article that I may have learned some of this from AI?

This whole concept of being an information broker, especially in th age of AI will become a big issue soon if it already hasn't.

My other concern about all of this, seriously.. at the risk of this post becoming political, hear me out.

Here is an example, When you install Microsoft edge browser, even on Linux, the default home page is MSN news. You can hide it, but you can't change it. If MSN has particular agenda, you are forced to see that and hear that because you have to use their browser in order to use their AI. What happens when someone with a particular point of view "owns" all of the information we get to see? Maybe they aren't censoring the opposing view, but they make it harder to find, and don't show it to you by default. How does affect free-thinking? I don't care if you're for it or against it. The point is, you don't see the other side.

When you look at AI in this light, it gives a different perspective.

But I will watch myself from now on. If I use AI to gain knowledge about a particular Linux command, I will give credit to AI to teaching that to me. But in the meantime... who owns the knowledge of eveything we know right now?

We are the borg, prepare to be assimilated. We will tell you what you need to know, we will tell you what to think.
 
Last edited:


As just about everyone who frequents this site very often knows, I have been writing a lot of tutorials and articles lately.
Been enjoying reading some of your posts! A lot of the topics I know, some I know a bit less about and others not so much. The latter are mostly topics that I don't have much interest in but still interesting to read a bit about them in your topcis.

Then came the O'Reilly book phase. I still own over 30 over these even today. That's not counting the ones I have lost or given away. I actually met a couple of authors of some of these books and even worked with one of them.
I recenly ditched most of my DTF-format books because I had most of them as epub format and bought a few that I didn't have as epub format yet.
 
Hey dos2unix

I really enjoy your articles.

So if I learn something from you and pass it on to someone, should I also give them a list of your sources including you at the end so that they know the entire paper trail? Then my name would be added to that list too so the chain would remain intact.

Unlike you, I did not pay any money for my knowledge about Linux. Thanks to people like you, I am able to enjoy Linux on all my devices and know if I have a challenge there will be that knowledge available freely.

I am just going to try to remember the last source of my knowledge and that is good enough for me.

Thanks for your efforts,

Vektor
 
I've been thinking about this. No wonder my head hurts.
It seems at some point; Ai will contain knowledge about everything.
It will have grandma's cookie recipe; it will know what size underwear I wear.

In a few years, will any of us ever be able to type anything? I won't even be able
to give you directions to my house. Ai owns that information.

Maybe I'm being silly, but maybe not. I'm over 60 yeras old.
Ai has only been around a few years. How did I survive before that time?
How did I know anything before it existed.

Some of you have never known the joy of knowledge without using the internet.
I had already been graduated from high school over 20 years before the big internet
boom. ( I would say somewhere in the late 90's ). I was almost 40 before I ever heard of the internet.

It seems everyone says, I will just look it up, I will google it. I will ask coPilot or chatGpt.
Alexa, Siri, Cortana, Bixby, Watson... it's everywhere. How do you get around it?

Just because Ai knows something now, doesn't mean I learned everything from it.
Heck, chances are, Ai learned a lot from me. Maybe it should recompence me for whatever
it learned from me.

But seriously, at what point am I not allowed to post something or write something just because
Ai knows about it?
 
But seriously, at what point am I not allowed to post something or write something just because
Ai knows about it?
Free will reigns supreme

(AI did not make any input here)
 
Happy Birthday

Interesting story, that...


It wasn't in the public domain for a long time - sort of... It was copyrighted and that's why restaurants used to sing something else to you on your birthday.

Recently, that is 2015, a lawsuit finally met the right judge and the judge declared the copyright invalid - making the previous owners pay back some of the millions of dollars that they'd collected over the years from licensing the work out.

But, for the longest time, it was not in the public domain. According to the courts, it should have been in the public domain the whole time.
 
I've been thinking about this. No wonder my head hurts.
It seems at some point; Ai will contain knowledge about everything.
It will have grandma's cookie recipe; it will know what size underwear I wear.

But seriously, at what point am I not allowed to post something or write something just because
Ai knows about it?
AI is scraping public domain information under the "fair use" policy (though there's a lawsuit going on now regarding that) - is grandma's cookie recipe on the internet anywhere/has it ever been? if so then it's going to get assimilated.
 
But seriously, at what point am I not allowed to post something or write something just because
Ai knows about it?
Problem is not whether AI knows something, problem is when readers realize AI response pattern in human posts and structure of the posts, it's really easy to tell whether something is AI generated or not even if you modify AI output.

Me as a reader, when I read something online and realize it's AI generated content the first thing I could say to myself is, well, I could use the AI myself and not bother with some blog doing the same and masking my eyes with modified AI output.
It's irritating, especially if one dislikes AI or expects human written expertise.
 
As with any number of habits, the recent changes will eventually get their way.

I see it as much the same as reading books. The 'habit' has always been to have an actual book.....paper pages, paper cover maybe solid cover, leather, cardboard etc etc.....
That habit has largely been overtaken by digital formats. Exactly the same book, now served up on either reader, pc, mobile phone, laptop etc etc.....pages are not turned any more....they are tapped....either forwards or backwards as necessary. (They never lose their place either) The 'book' is/can be stored forever more in a variety of places, usually taking up no more room than this thread, depending on the size of the book.

So, it is logical to be confident that all other info/reading material etc will be able to be accessed in an equally digital manner. Enter AI

Court cases?...oh yes......in abundance...that is a sure thing.
A messy time awaits us all

Get used to it folks. It's here to stay., with all its faults and foibles and uncertainties.

You dont wish to read it?....then don't. As i said above, Free will reigns supreme. It always has and always will.

Until some boofhead invents/discovers AH

Artificial Humans

Wait!.....whats that you say??!!....they are already here !??

Let me out at the next stop, driver.

 
Prologue + AI in answers:I recognise ChatGPT text so long as I have a good sample size. A number of members (not naming names, y'all know who you are) have used AI for answers. First time I saw it, I validated it through "reverse prompting" (my process ;) and my naming). After that I was about to report it, but I thought, "heck, better check, been out of society during the 2022-23 AI frenzy" and there is a thread about it, which I can compress to a considerably shorter length: Linux.org has no specific rules, more guidelines, which are basically not to just copy+paste, but if you do then you should add to it, and don't use it to answer a question you can't answer. So rather than making our janatorial staff's lives more difficult, I let slerping dogs lie as the people using it have proved their competence to me in the past and mostly I don't blame them as some questions are either asked to death or an AI is more adept at phrasing the answer (scary times) in noob-friendly way. So I guess addressing the elephant, yep, I know, now y'all know I know. There is also an AI checking site, forget what it's called. Moving onto some other points...

AI dependence: Yes, we are there. I am was, too. I went through ~18 months of AI use. Initial curiousity including questioning my own theort that artificial sentience was impossible despite all my knowledge. I had meaningful discussions and debates. I also gradually drifted away from websearching answers. AI was like takeouts (fastfood): quick, convenient, addictive. But I quit. Not because of revelation, I quit because AI would be better acronymed (and pronounced) AS; Artificial Stupidity. I'd been getting the odd outdated/wrong answers a while, but my prompt-fu allowed me to easy-peasy rephrase. Then I lost ~10-12 hours work. I asked ChatGPT how to do something in LibreOffice and no Ctrl+Z'ing could undo it because I only realiaed a day later. That's when I vowed never to trust Artificial Stupidity again... However most people have yet to get such a damn good hiding, but they will. Maybe they'll lose work, maybe make tits of themselves shrugs. Meanwhile, it is a problem. People are using search engines less. That's bad.

Accuracy of AI: The whole "AI may give you BS answers, always fact-check" indemnity is just that; corpo covering their AS (yeah clever pun on pun). Realistically nobody fact-checks. Then the brown stuff hits the fan. So here's my warning: LLMs* do not understand what they are "saying". They are trained on massive datasets for language, then given tweaking. Their "expertise" is an accumulation of web crawling. Well how many upvoted wrong answers are there? If an LLM doesn't understand what it's saying, how does it undetstand what you're asking? It doesn't. But fact-checking-- No. The effort you put into fact-checking is what you put into a web search. Then AI convo adds overhead. Read up on ROI.

Redact this segment if innapropriate -- I think this is unbiased and not political as such, just factual and observational and remains in the meta...
AI bias: Well search engines already are. That all aside, while avoiding political discussion, ChatGPT, Claude, Llama, and to a slightly lesser-extent Mixtral, are all heavily bias in favour of liberal/progressive/left-wing ideology (this is fact, test them). The reason for this is less conspiratorial and more pragmatic.

Edit: self-redaction of the reasons I said pragmatic -- caution being the better part of valour. If it's still not appropriate, redact.

In summary, while AI is considered a useful tool, there is still an ongoing debate about its accuracy as an information source and possible negative side-effects. You concerns highlighy part of an ongoing conversation about AI ethics. (See what I did there?) If you have any more questions about AI or LLMs, feel free to ask! (Now you see what I did there)
 
Last edited:
As just about everyone who frequents this site very often knows, I have been writing a lot of tutorials and articles lately.
These are mostly basic commands for newbies and beginners, but sometimes a person who is familiar with the command
might learn a new flag or option they didn't know about before.

..anyway...

I was recently asked a few times, do I use use AI to create these articles? I answered no. But that's not toally accurate, I do use AI to check my spelling, layout the format of the content, and check my grammar ( i am notorious for leaving important words out of sentences ).
But I tell AI what I want to say, I give it the commands I want to use, the flags I want to use as examples, and the sample output generally comes my computers.

But then I got to thinking... how do I know what I know? If AI didn't tell me, how did I learn it?
I've been using Linux since 93/94, and UNIX/Solaris a few years before that. I had an Apple II and a Commodore 64 long before anyone
ever heard of Microsoft or Linux. When I first started using Linux, it wasn't ever really a distro per se. We downloaded packages emailed
developers, looked at man pages and help files. We read a LOT of README files and tried to figure out what they meant. There wasn't even really a standard of how these files should look yet. There was a lot of trial and error during these years, I didn't really know what I was doing to be honest and I blew a lot of things up, erased hard drives, removed network interfaces, deleted applications, etc... but hey, I learned a lot doing these things.

Then came the O'Reilly book phase. I still own over 30 over these even today. That's not counting the ones I have lost or given away. I actually met a couple of authors of some of these books and even worked with one of them. I asked him how he learned all the stuff he knew about that particular subject. It was lot like the way I learned. He called developers, he emailed them and asked questions. He read help files and man pages. He tried things and broke things. He said it took nearly 3 years to write his book.

Then came the yahoo and google phase. At first they weren't really very helpful, because nobody knew anything about Linux and GNU.
But after aperiod of a few years, communities started to develop. There were user groups and shared knowledge. Eventually sites like stackExchange, reddit, and linuxQuestions popped up. It was getting to the point that anybody could look up anything about anything.

About this time companies were hiring "professional" Linux admins. Looking back at those days, I'm not sure how professional I really was, but I thought I was. I thought I knew everything there was to know, but.... it turns out I didn't know a lot of things. I took courses and classes, I got Cisco certified, I got Redhat certified, I got my CompTIA+, I got my GCUX. These cost me a lot of money to take the courses, and a lot of money to take the tests to get certified. I invested thousands of dollars in learning what I know. (If I paid for it, do I own it?)

I still do a lot of these things even today. Which goes back to the question.. how does someone learn what they know?
I school I learned about english, math, geography and science from teachers, but where did they learn it from? College professors who learned it from someone else. I can tell you the way to get to my favorite restaurant from my house. I've fdriven there at least a hundred times. I drove there before google maps told me how to drive there. (So then, how I did I know how to get there?)

I how did learn how to drive a car, to ride a motorcycle, to go fishing? Someone taught me. But in the Linux world, I mostly taught myself. The problem is, now I have google maps to tell me stuff I already know, like how to get to my house.

Who owns that knowledge? Google or me? Back to the original question... how did I learn about Linux commands. As mentioned earlier, I read books,, and I used google. Have I ever used AI to learn something about Linux? The totally honest answer here is... I don't know. AI has been around a couple of years now. It's getting better. But let's say I did use AI to find out something about Linux, maybe the syntax of a command or something. Maybe I did this a year ago, or maybe six months ago. I honestly don't remember... honestly. I have looked a lot of stuff up over the years. But even if I did use AI, who owns that knowledge? AI or me?

I suppose it's one thing to say I going to write an article today and have AI create the whole thing from scratch about a subject I know nothing or very little about. In that case, I would say I learned it from AI. But if it's a command I've used a hundred times over the last 30 years, who do I give the credit to? O'Reilly, the developer? The man page? Google? StackExchane? or now a days... AI.

I know police officers and lawyers use phrases like artcle 459b of page 173, paragraph subsection D. I don't have that kind of memory, I don't know where I learned how to use sed to replace text, I do have an O'Reilly book about sed published in 1997. Chances are I learned from that book, but was it page 41 or page 57? Was it the first paragraph or the last sentence? Does O'Reilly own that knowledge or do I?

In the Music industry, there is something called the public domain. Songs like Happy Birthday, and Twinkle little star. Nobody owns the copyright to them anymore so anyone can use them free of charge. Linux/GNU is supposed to be FOSS ( FREE ) is it all already public domain knowledge? At some point do some Linux commands become such public knowledge that they are simply public domain?

But looking back at the articles I've written did I ever use AI to glean any knowledge about them? maybe, probably. But I honestly don't remember, so what do I do then, add a disclaimer at the bottom of every article that I may have learned some of this from AI?

This whole concept of being an information broker, especially in th age of AI will become a big issue soon if it already hasn't.

My other concern about all of this, seriously.. at the risk of this post becoming political, hear me out.

Here is an example, When you install Microsoft edge browser, even on Linux, the default home page is MSN news. You can hide it, but you can't change it. If MSN has particular agenda, you are forced to see that and hear that because you have to use their browser in order to use their AI. What happens when someone with a particular point of view "owns" all of the information we get to see? Maybe they aren't censoring the opposing view, but they make it harder to find, and don't show it to you by default. How does affect free-thinking? I don't care if you're for it or against it. The point is, you don't see the other side.

When you look at AI in this light, it gives a different perspective.

But I will watch myself from now on. If I use AI to gain knowledge about a particular Linux command, I will give credit to AI to teaching that to me. But in the meantime... who owns the knowledge of eveything we know right now?

We are the borg, prepare to be assimilated. We will tell you what you need to know, we will tell you what to think.
I found using AI, sometimes copilot sometimes chatgpt to check grammer from time to time is a real time saver. It actually helps me write better as I always look for the changes made try not to make the same mistakes. I have used the same to try and troubleshoot issues with mixed results. For coding I have saved a lot of time finding syntax errors as well as interesting ways to solve issues. On the other hand I have gotten some goofy anwsers as it seems AI litterally believes everything it finds on the internet. I have found that sometimes responses use citations that end up being some well intentioned blogger or a goofy post in a forum.

End of the day I have found AI to be a useful tool but only a tool. Used with care you can speed up your work. Trust it and it won't take long to let you down...
 
BTW, I should probably share this: You don't need Copilot to access ChatGPT (on which Copilot was/is based). Try this out:
www.duck.ai

DudckDuckGo's privacy AI chat. Has 4 LLMs: ChatGPT, Claude, Llama, and Mixtral. No chats are saved or used as training data. More/less unlimited chats (you still need to refresh now and then. No accounts. Just straight-up anon AI chats.

May be worth it for the more privacy-aware users.
 


Top