Questions about Debian

[rainbowoflight]

Hi Linux.org
1- The description for Debian Distribution says it provides packages "software" that is open source not proprietary. Is that still true today?

I was a Linux Mint user since 2018 and very happy. Recently Canonical is in collaboration with Corporate IT giant "G" on an program/api called Flutter. A new install of LM 21.3 show over 2,000 files and folders with giant "G" some are header files.
I started to get scared about privacy.

I just want to make sure if I try Debian that they are also not collaborating and shifting many features to seem like Windows like LM.

2- I am not a computer wiz, I have been learning to work with "Man" and using commands for moving, copying etc of files. I have been creating tar backups manually. I have read a great deal and know what can be done but take my time and am cautious to try new commands. Its easier to try new commands when I find examples.

I don't know how if Debian is strictly command line or if it does have some gui tools.... Meaning how much of a Tech does one need to be inorder to work with Debian?

3- Once I deleted a Linux Header file after installing Nord VPN. I deleted it because a pop-up box said it was no longer needed and instructed on deleting it. I wrote down the file name, thank goodness. The Nord VPN techs could not assist. It took 6 days to figure out what was wrong and fix it using all the wonderful tools LM offers, like Symantic Package Manager. I had to reinstall some Security Keys from Spotify, and reinstall some repositories for Update Manager to work again.

Does Debian have these kinds of wonderful Gui administrative tools like Linux Mint? They really come in handy!

4- I have received direct assistance with Linux Mint Team via the IRC Chat Room. It was very helpful in a pinch.
Does Debian have a live help like Linux Mint via IRC Chat or something?

5- I read a post on choosing a Linux Distrobution that had a link to a site where one could try out the distribution.... I lost that link.

6- My 2 laptops are Lenovo's which are Linux friendly. So I believe there is not much of an issue. And I am a sole proprietor using simple computing, no need for "Business" Computing and heavy technology. I do not need the most new technology. So I thought Debian might be an answer. Just don't know how much of a learning curve it will require.

Blessings for all your good will and time. Thank you in advance for answering my questions.
Raingbowoflight

 

[ron.alan]

Since you're used to Mint, why not try the LMDE version? LMDE = Linux Mint Debian Edition. It will be clear of anything from Ubuntu/Canonical. But even though it is a "Mint," there are differences (of course).

 

[Brickwizard]

If you have been using Mint 19/20/21/22 then you have been using Ubuntu which is a re-worked bloated version of Debian
terminal commands are the same, If you are worried about using pure Debian then use Mint LMDE6 which is based directly on Debian but with the friendly Mint repositories and the cinnamon desktop.
The safe way to remove headers is Autoremove

 

[rainbowoflight]

Thank you very much ron.alan, and Brickwizard
I am going to check that out LMDE. And also look into Debian. Perhaps LMDE will be a stepping stone?
I guess Debian is more hard core with less gui action?
LMDE sounds like a quick fix for now. Excited to check it out.

 

[Alexzee]

Thank you very much ron.alan, and Brickwizard
I am going to check that out LMDE. And also look into Debian. Perhaps LMDE will be a stepping stone?
I guess Debian is more hard core with less gui action?
LMDE sounds like a quick fix for now. Excited to check it out.

Debian with the Mate desktop doesn't have a Update Manager so you will have to use the command-line to update and upgrade the system. Some of the GUI's that come with Debian are not fancy. However, you can add theme's to configure things to look the way you want.
The Cinnamon desktop would be easier to use with Debian 12 Stable as it has an Update Manager.

I've been running Debian stable for years and whatever I didn't understand The Debian Administrators Handbook helped.

About this project

Written by two Debian developers — Raphaël Hertzog and Roland Mas — the Debian Administrator's Handbook started as a translation of their French best-seller known as Cahier de l'admin Debian (published by Eyrolles). It's a fantastic resource for all users of a Debian-based distribution...

debian-handbook.info

 

[osprey]

Hi Linux.org

@rainbowoflight wrote:

I just want to make sure if I try Debian that they are also not collaborating and shifting many features to seem like Windows like LM.

Debian is a linux distribution, not a proprietary one. It's the users who can decide what a debian installation looks like and which features it has. There's over 67,000 packages available in the debian repositories and a typical installation has between 1000 and 3000, so the options for users are considerable. I don't believe you'll be at a loss for packages to create something that will satisfy your wishes.

I have been learning to work with "Man"

Man pages provide canonical information, but can be quite terse and include terminology that assumes some pre-existing knowledge. Debian has a a lot of documentation on its wiki which can be very informative though one often has to hunt through it because it's not always organised neatly like a book might be.

I don't know how if Debian is strictly command line or if it does have some gui tools
....
Does Debian have these kinds of wonderful Gui administrative tools like Linux Mint?

Debian is as "command line oriented", or "GUI oriented" as one wishes to make it. One can install numerous GUI programs if they wish to use them since so many of them exist in the repositories. In linux generally though, even if a program doesn't exist in the distribution's repository, it can usually be downloaded from upstream and installed.

I read a post on choosing a Linux Distrobution that had a link to a site where one could try out the distribution.

One can try linux distros online here currently:

Instant Workstation

instantworkstation.com

https://distrosea.com/

Run Linux OS Distributions online

Run free RPM online Linux distributions online with the OnWorks free hosting provider

www.onworks.net

My experience of these is that they are slow and feel like walking through treacle, and thus don't accurately represent the experience of an installed distro. They also have considerable limitations on functionality. One can however, run a distro from a live disk which is a far more realistic approximation of a distro. For using live distros, one might consider the ventoy means of doing it. See here: https://www.ventoy.net/en/index.html

 

[Fanboi]

Hi Linux.org
1- The description for Debian Distribution says it provides packages "software" that is open source not proprietary. Is that still true today?

Yes. You can control even by what degree you allow proprietary stuff in: contrib - may depend on proprietary stuff; non-free - does not comply with Debian's definition of FOSS*; non-free-firmware - stuff that's straight from OEMs or patented.
*Also determined by DFSG.

I just want to make sure if I try Debian that they are also not collaborating and shifting many features to seem like Windows like LM.

They aren't and won't. They have a social contract. They're purists. And LM does not try to seem like Windows, the default DE in Cinnamon which is user-centric, but has the base elements of Windows while still being different in its own right. But that's just the default. You can choose a DE like E17 or Gnome3 which look nothing like Windows.

I don't know how if Debian is strictly command line or if it does have some gui tools.... Meaning how much of a Tech does one need to be inorder to work with Debian?

You misunderstand how a normal OS works (because Windows diverges from tradition here). Essentially the graphical interface -- like X11 + your Desktop Environment -- are just a graphical shell. Just something that runs on top of a fully functional OS with a robust CLI shell... In short, yes, you can do things graphically. Official DEs: Gnome3, KDE, LXDE, LXqt, MATE, Cinnamon, and XFCE (best).

Does Debian have these kinds of wonderful Gui administrative tools like Linux Mint? They really come in handy!

Yes, Synaptic is native to Debian. They developed it (AFAIK).

4- I have received direct assistance with Linux Mint Team via the IRC Chat Room. It was very helpful in a pinch.
Does Debian have a live help like Linux Mint via IRC Chat or something?

Like all mainstreams distros, Debian has forums etc... plus you have here for all distros. IDK how helpful the community is since I've never gone looking for help there. I don't remember how I ended up here but anyway, this community is very helpful for every distro.

6- My 2 laptops are Lenovo's which are Linux friendly. So I believe there is not much of an issue. And I am a sole proprietor using simple computing, no need for "Business" Computing and heavy technology. I do not need the most new technology. So I thought Debian might be an answer. Just don't know how much of a learning curve it will require.

It's a very viable answer. Privacy, security, and stability are why I use it as my daily driver. The learning curve is non-existent. Most "commands" are core utilities that have existed since UNIX. Each distro may have differences like package managers, init systems, and network management. But for the most part, starting on a new distro means only this: how the package manager works, how the init system works, which tools were chosen for network management, and any isms.
Since Debian is Linux Mint's Grandfather and LMDE's father -- ew! ...
Debian -> Ubuntu -> Linux Mint
Debian -> Linux Mint Debian Edition
... the CLI will be more/less the say for your needs. But it won't matter because for a new user, you can use Debian and install Cinnamon and you'll only feel like a few minor things have changed.

In short, try Debian in a VM, try it with Cinnamon DE and see... Heck try it with all DEs, this is the world of Linux so explore!

 

[ron.alan]

Debian with the Mate desktop doesn't have a Update Manager so you will have to use the command-line to update and upgrade the system.

Not entirely true, updating can be done through Synaptic.

 

[ron.alan]

They aren't and won't. They have a social contract. They're purists.

I wouldn't call any distro that uses systemd "purists."

 

[Fanboi]

I wouldn't call any distro that uses systemd "purists."

Well played!

 

[Alexzee]

Not entirely true, updating can be done through Synaptic.

Thanks I wasn't aware that Synaptic can update the system.
I've always used the command-line on my install of Debian Mate.

 

[Terminal Velocity]

I use Debian 11 Cinnamon many years now and I'm not an expert in Linux terminal, I never encountered something unsolvable with it, there is always this forum and the ''Debian user forum'' where you can find high quality help. Debian cinnamon has GUIs for all kinds of things, from firewall to archivers, just make sure you get the Cinnamon desktop, it will be just like Mint but more solid and long lasting

Index of /debian-cd/current-live/amd64/bt-hybrid

 

[kc1di]

I think in your case the suggestion for LMDE6 is a good one. However I've used debian on may machines over the years and it's always been stable and solid. Takes some getting use to, in doing things and depending on which install media you use, you will need to configure a few things to get it to work the way you want. But once there it will last at least two years or longer.

 

[CptKrf]

Been on Debian since version 3 - Sarge, as I remember.

I always install the absolute minimum Debian system, checking only the single box for basic system utilities. After the boot, then I can install only and exactly what I want and need. By purchasing a flash drive with the entirety of the mirror repository (nominal cost and well worth it), I can install or reinstall an entire system in only minutes. Favorite non-repository programs reside on a separate flash drive for manual install if wanted.

There is nothing wrong with the popular distros, but once your get your Linux feet on the ground, you may find that they give you too much fluff, and with Debian you can duplicate anything they have to your own taste. Unlike the two other OS'es, nothing is forced on you - not even Systemd, if you want to avoid it.

 

[Trenix25]

I believe the source code is available for many of the Debian packages. You just need to tell apt to look for it. Never underestimate the power of the command line. Debian certainly had a lot of graphical programs to use. I tend to use the command line for system administration purposes, and most everything else really, unless I really need a graphical program. A web browser doesn't run from the command line. Well, you can start it from that, but that's about it.

Signed,

Matthew Campbell

 

[craigevil]

package-update-indicator works well.
Description: Notify about available software updates

gnome-package-updater
Description: Software package updater for GNOME
GNOME Package Updater allows you to update packages on your system without
rebooting. You can view details about each update and choose which updates
to apply.

If you want source packages you need a deb-src line in your sources.list

deb-src https://deb.debian.org/debian/ bookworm main contrib non-free

If you need a terminal web browser links2 works reasonable well.

Debian "official" IRC rooms are on OFTC, unofficial rooms but with most of the same people are on Libera chat.

OFTC - Home

www.oftc.net

Libera Chat

A next-generation IRC network for FOSS projects collaboration!

libera.chat

A good working Debian sources.list:

# Debian 12 Bookworm https://www.debian.org/releases/bookworm/
deb https://deb.debian.org/debian/ bookworm main contrib non-free non-free-firmware
# deb-src https://deb.debian.org/debian/ bookworm main contrib non-free

# Bookworm Security https://www.debian.org/releases/bookworm/
deb https://deb.debian.org/debian-security bookworm-security main contrib non-free
# deb-src https://deb.debian.org/debian-security bookworm-security main contrib non-free

# Bookworm Updates https://wiki.debian.org/DebianBookworm#FAQ
# https://wiki.debian.org/StableUpdates All packages from stable-updates will be included in point releases.
deb https://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm-updates main contrib non-free
# deb-src https://deb.debian.org/debian bookworm-updates main contrib non-free

# Bookworm Proposed Updates https://wiki.debian.org/StableProposedUpdates
# Stable-proposed-updates is an apt repository that contains the files that are being prepared for the next Debian/Stable point release.
deb https://deb.debian.org/debian/ bookworm-proposed-updates main contrib non-free 
# deb-src https://deb.debian.org/debian/ bookworm-proposed-updates main contrib non-free

# Bookworm Backports  https://backports.debian.org/
# Backports are _not_ enabled by default.
# Enable them by uncommenting the following line:
deb https://deb.debian.org/debian/ bookworm-backports main contrib non-free
# deb-src https://deb.debian.org/debian/ bookworm-backports main contrib non-free

If you want to use Brave, Vivaldi, or Firefox directly from Mozilla you would need to add their APT repos.

 

[rainbowoflight]

Many thanks to all of you: Alexzee, osprey, Fanboi, ron.alan, Terminal Velocity, kc1di, CptKrf, Trenix25, craigevil... and anyone else I may have missed.
It seems like all of you have some excitement about Debian. And have provided encouragement to grow as a linux user in the Debian style. Good teachers always encourage.

I move forward like a turtle doing my research then taking small steps forward. The LMDE sounds like a simple small step that will be easy without much learning curve. I will move on to Debian from there (LMDE). I very much like that Debian is the genesis to Ubuntu and Mint.

In reading it appears as if I would have to learn apt in more detail and- aptitude, dpkg...

It may take a bit of time, because I have lots of "do-it- yourself" projects some are outdoors and temperature dependent. I am pushing to get them done, being it is a very warm November herein the North Eastern USA Tri-State-area.

I love Books and will buy the Debian Handbook Book. It is always helpful to have a physical "how to Linux" books or pdf books on a usb drive, just in case. One may not be able to access online when a system goes down.

Yes the online Debian Handbook is extensive. I just made a small contribution. I used to buy the osdisc usb drives. I loved osdisc, they had more than distribution iso. I remember they had rootkit and bootable usb tools for saving a system. I was very sad when they stopped existing.

Get the book

Pick the language you’re interested in: English Français (French) 日本語 (Japanese) Bokmål (Norwegian) Español (Spanish) Other languages Before going further, if you want to make up your mind about the book, you’re invited to browse the online version. Buy the English paperback The 512-page...

debian-handbook.info

Vendors of Debian installation media

Debian installation media for USB, CD, DVD

I just found Linux.org Tutorial pages.

Forum list

Friendly Linux Forum

linux.org

That looks nice. I am in reading mode for now,Linux.org has other related topics I just found like of cleaning and re-formating a usb; creating iso on usb and other that have unique info and probably will need to use to make this switch to Debian.
I just searched for Debian Install on LInux.org: lots of results

Got to run, its getting warm enough outside to work on my projects.
Blessings, and thanks for the encouragement,
rainbowoflight

 

[rainbowoflight]

Hi, I decided to jump into Debian and by pass the LMDE, because... well Privacy is getting more sticky these days, especially in US, with new administration. I heard a radio broadcast on the new admin training videos making many words and subjects prohibited, thus freedom of speech is on the line.

FF has gotten very forward about privacy, its new program to help users opt-out of the online brokers from selling their personal information is very effective and entities like that Giant probably don't like that.

Over the course of years I have observed as you probably have many small fish in the pond seemingly disappear. I believe there could be many under handed ways to scare-force someone out of a CEO position.

I looked at the file system again, there are much more than 2000 + docs and folders and now firmware and many more Linux Header folders and files including the Giant.

I have been working through the creation of live usb iso and installation of Debian. My the Debian online Handbook is voluminous! I am ordering the Handbook in print now.

That Debian Handbook is going to make using Debian possible and enjoyable. What a treat!

Thank you all so much for your encouragement and info. I believe this topic is going to be a hot one, with others following once they get wind of what is happening to their privacy.

Blessings,
rainbowoflight

 

[Brickwizard]

If you're getting a bit paranoid about your incoming government, then perhaps you should investigate Tails Linux

 

[rainbowoflight]

Yes I hope its just paranoia, and not the other case scenario. Yes I have tried Tails Linux from a usb stick. I want to explore that more.
Blessings and thanks,
rainbowoflight