I have Mint 20 mate installed, with a separate DATA partition mounted at my home (not /home) filesystem. I want to install an older version (17) on the same HD and have both 17 & 20 access the same - or a new - data partition. What's the best way to do this? Preferably /home/username would be the same on both systems.
Sharing data partition between versions
- Thread starter Edzell
- Start date
You shouldn't even consider installing Linux Mint 17 because that version is End of Life meaning it doesn't receive anymore updates.
endoflife.software
Is there a reason you want to run two versions, if you do still want to run two version consider running the most recent version along side 20 which is 21 but yes it is possible be sure to read the this.
EOL Linux Mint | End of Life (EOL) | Clément Lefèbvre | Lifecycle
Clément Lefèbvre Linux Mint product lifecycle information. Get end of life (EOL) and release dates for all releases of operating system Linux Mint
endoflife.software
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You are aware of the potential pitfalls in sharing $HOME between two different OSes?
FYI: This box is dual boot; I have 2x OSes installed (Ubuntu lunar or the development release, and Ubuntu jammy or the LTS release). I've always liked dual boot; and consequently felt sharing $HOME was great... long ago anyway.
I've done what you're trying to do in the past, back in late 2000's (Ubuntu 10.10 days maybe) I'd experienced few issues with it in the years before then anyway.. However in the following few release cycles I stopped doing it, unless I did a ton of homework to ensure I didn't suffer data loss.
eg. in 2011 changes were made in GNOME that provided newer features in the GNOME MUA (Evolution or mail user agent program) & other GNOME apps, I decided those features were terrific & started using them on the newer OS, and since the other (older) OS didn't know about those features; I just assumed it wouldn't be an issue... I learnt many weeks later it was!
Eventually I was notified I was ignoring (not replying etc to emails) from multiple people, which had me explore why... Turns out by using the feature in my MAIL program on the newer release; it caused emails to be completely ignored by the older program; no errors - just the data it showed was incomplete... I'd not done my homework on that new feature; looked at what change it would do to the datafiles, and how that change would impact the older version of the program (the older app ignored data records that used the new feature & one record before/after too).
I've given one example here only; sorry if you don't understand.. but the consequences can be significant... In my case it was a matter of weeks (6-8 weeks) before I noted the problem; and I quickly discovered when using the older OS I could read my emails via jumping to terminal & reading the mail database at terminal; then copy it to the mail app & write replies (which was much slower!) but hopefully you get the point from this example. (when this release was fully upgraded, the mail was no longer ignored).
I've shared $HOME between Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora & OpenSuSE, and in my opinion the OS makes no difference; HOWEVER the age of the software stack in the sharing OS makes a huge difference. Your question relates to different age of stacks; thus this quick example of a single problem. If data matters to you; you'll need to compare the versions of each of those packages/programs to ensure they'll cope correctly when sharing data with a newer/older version of the app; ie. do your homework first. Homework is on a package basis; ie. every app where you value your data.
From a dual boot sharing $HOME, I then moved to loading specific directories onto my $HOME for specific apps, and for some apps keep more than one copy of the data (due to software stack age differences), and actually had scripts which would keep those different directories in ~sync, as I use more than a single box; but want my files available regardless of which box I'm actually using (Hey I'm using Ubuntu now, but 30 minutes ago I was on a different box running Debian).
I stopped sharing $HOME, in time even stopped sharing app directories mounted from a NFS share onto the local $HOME/.. directory.
Now my shared data is just saved on the NFS share & is available on all my devices. It's available for all my OSes, all my boxes (with local network access anyway), and works regardless of the age of the stack.
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I've had other problems too, some were detected quickly; eg. one newer stack detected an older database was being used; so reformatted it matching the newer software stack preference... When I next rebooted and returned to the other older OS sharing that data; it just refused to start reporting the database was corrupt (it was unable to read the reformatted database used by the newer app). FYI: This was a different GNOME app & I've had this issue with a number of apps, and I was mostly a GNOME user back 2006-2011 when I shared my $HOME between OSes thus my mention of the GNOME based apps (which will be common for other GTK desktops such as Xfce, MATE, Cinnamon, etc)
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@f33dm3bits, @guiverc - Thanks for your replies and help.
I did not contemplate sharing /home between installed releases; but rather giving it a partition of its own within each system; with all my personal data also in a partition of its own, that they could both access. In the mint 20 I have installed, /home is already on a separate partition, as is my data.
The only reason I've considered putting 2 releases on the same machine is that I have replaced 17 with 20 and regret it. I want 17 back and, having plenty of room on the HD, I thought I'd just install it alongside 20. I may abandon that idea, wipe 20 and simply reinstall the more familiar (to me) mint 17.
At age 86 I'm decades too far gone to try 'really learning' linux or any of its distros but I despise the business philosophy and practices of Microsoft. I'm just an inexpert basic user of mint, at an age where I'm inept at dealing with change. Mint 17 has been working well for me for a number of years, without any problems attributable to its declared 'end of life'. What specific disadvantages do you believe I am likely to experience if I keep using it (as I'm probably going to do
).
Thanks again for your time & trouble in responding to my question.
I did not contemplate sharing /home between installed releases; but rather giving it a partition of its own within each system; with all my personal data also in a partition of its own, that they could both access. In the mint 20 I have installed, /home is already on a separate partition, as is my data.
The only reason I've considered putting 2 releases on the same machine is that I have replaced 17 with 20 and regret it. I want 17 back and, having plenty of room on the HD, I thought I'd just install it alongside 20. I may abandon that idea, wipe 20 and simply reinstall the more familiar (to me) mint 17.
At age 86 I'm decades too far gone to try 'really learning' linux or any of its distros but I despise the business philosophy and practices of Microsoft. I'm just an inexpert basic user of mint, at an age where I'm inept at dealing with change. Mint 17 has been working well for me for a number of years, without any problems attributable to its declared 'end of life'. What specific disadvantages do you believe I am likely to experience if I keep using it (as I'm probably going to do
).Thanks again for your time & trouble in responding to my question.
Brickwizard
Well-Known Member
It's more a security thing, mint 17 reached it end of life in April 2019, so you would not have received any updates for nearly 4 years, there have been many, many updates and additional security added since then,
What problems are you having with recent releases? If it's a change of the included applications, you can change back to those you prefer, quite easily, most will be in the software manager. if it's a bloat problem, then just uninstall any applications you don't use/need.
Yeah it's possible you could for example create a separate partition for your user data,than create a mount(ie: /data) location on both installs and add a matching fstab entry, you would have to make sure on both installs you would have matching user details.
The differences between Mint major release aren't that big usually and if you are also planning to connect to the internet it's not safe to be booting up a distribution that is end of life because an os that is end of life won't receive any sort of updates including security updates.
For myself I have use an nfs share if I want to access the same data on multiple systems on my home network and if I go outside of my home network I to access my date from multiple devices I use Nextcloud.
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The guys are pointing out the dangers of running out-of-date, unsupported EOL distributions for good reason. Unless you're very good with this stuff, know exactly what you're doing, and are happy to keep on top of 'manually' patching your system against vulnerabilities, running an unsupported distro is the quickest way for the unsuspecting average user to come to grief. For the majority, it's simpler to just let the distro's own update mechanisms take care of this for you.....bearing in mind that after EOL, this all stops. You no longer receive ANY patches or updates.
Whatever your reasons (that's your affair).....and whatever the distros in question might happen to be (I'm coming at this from a different angle, totally separate from the security/EOL thing), you most certainly don't want to share 'user' (/home) directories. So doing will invariably create conflicts between applications, since your user directory is where the system will store all the settings/config stuff for whatever applications that you, as a user, have installed and subsequently run. Sharing access to 'personal' data, however, shouldn't be an issue.....videos, images, photos, documents, whatever, etc......these are not code-specific to any given distro. It's stuff you've accumulated yourself, often over an extended period of time.
We do a lot of 'sharing' of personal data in Puppy-land. We also share directories of 'portable' applications, given that many of these applications - browsers in particular - will run under multiple different Puppies anyway. Usually from a separate partition/drive, totally outside the 'system' stuff, then sym-linked into your 'user' directory.....meaning that when you click on that directory in your user directory, you're actually accessing that external directory directly.
(In Puppy's case, that 'user' directory is in fact the /root directory!)
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Myself, I 'share' the following between maybe a dozen Pups:-
All stuff that I want to be able to access on a regular basis, regardless of what I happen to have booted into for that day.
I assume this is the kind of thing you're referring to?
Mike.
Whatever your reasons (that's your affair).....and whatever the distros in question might happen to be (I'm coming at this from a different angle, totally separate from the security/EOL thing), you most certainly don't want to share 'user' (/home) directories. So doing will invariably create conflicts between applications, since your user directory is where the system will store all the settings/config stuff for whatever applications that you, as a user, have installed and subsequently run. Sharing access to 'personal' data, however, shouldn't be an issue.....videos, images, photos, documents, whatever, etc......these are not code-specific to any given distro. It's stuff you've accumulated yourself, often over an extended period of time.
We do a lot of 'sharing' of personal data in Puppy-land. We also share directories of 'portable' applications, given that many of these applications - browsers in particular - will run under multiple different Puppies anyway. Usually from a separate partition/drive, totally outside the 'system' stuff, then sym-linked into your 'user' directory.....meaning that when you click on that directory in your user directory, you're actually accessing that external directory directly.
(In Puppy's case, that 'user' directory is in fact the /root directory!)
----------------------------------------------------------
Myself, I 'share' the following between maybe a dozen Pups:-
- Documents
- Media - Images, Music, Videos
- A common 'Downloads' directory
- A directory full of assorted Puppy system stuff I've collected over the years - including dedicated sub-directories for .pet packages, .deb packages, tarballs, AppImages, etc, etc...
- A directory of nearly 900 assorted PNG icons, and
- A directory full of assorted, completely self-contained 'portable' applications in both 'arches' (32- and 64-bit)
All stuff that I want to be able to access on a regular basis, regardless of what I happen to have booted into for that day.
I assume this is the kind of thing you're referring to?
Mike.
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Thanks, all, for your responses - chunks of which I understand, and others I never will. Not sure why all the heavy warnings about trying to share /home, though. I never intended, or suggested, doing that. Even with my limited knowledge it seemed obvious it would create big problems.
If I can be permitted an irreverent quip: I's a shame that FOSS and KISS are so mutually antagonistic. (Ducking under the table)
Seriously, thanks to all of you.
If I can be permitted an irreverent quip: I's a shame that FOSS and KISS are so mutually antagonistic. (Ducking under the table)
Seriously, thanks to all of you.
Condobloke
Well-Known Member
Why don't you get Linux Mint 21.1
That would solve all the hoo hah, and debate etc etc
It would entail a fresh install.
But at least all the clutter and guesswork would disappear
It is supported until around 2028 I think.
Just reading your first post. To me, that is complicating your life more than is necessary.
Be kind to yourself.
That would solve all the hoo hah, and debate etc etc
It would entail a fresh install.
But at least all the clutter and guesswork would disappear
It is supported until around 2028 I think.
Just reading your first post. To me, that is complicating your life more than is necessary.
Be kind to yourself.
My current system (what I consider my primary box) has two releases of Ubuntu (lunar [what will be 23.04 on release] and jammy [22.04 or a LTS release]), my other box (under a ceiling fan in another room) runs Debian but also has various Ubuntu releases installed too (Lubuntu actually; but to me that's Ubuntu). I have three other boxes on this table & all are dual boot, OSes include Ubuntu, a Fedora, OpenSuSE & old winXP & all are dual boot.
The boxes I regularly use will have the other system's (co-existing on the same machine) mounted in most cases which is achieved via fstab (file-system table) entries. The only machine where that was a little tricky was a system that uses encrypted data partition(s) which Ubuntu had (back then) recently made default & I wanted to get a feel for it.. On that system I made it not auto-mount; but it'll mount on request.
If you don't have encryption involved; it's pretty easy. I see no issues with one system being able to read/write to another systems data partition; many of my systems allow for that via auto-mounts; others I just mount when required.
Mint 17 has been working well for me for a number of years, without any problems attributable to its declared 'end of life'. What specific disadvantages do you believe I am likely to experience if I keep using it (as I'm probably going to do
That's a system based on Ubuntu 14.04 LTS as I understand it; a system which reached EOSS (end of standard support) back in 2019-April.
If using it offline, there will be no issues.
If using it online, I'd explore what your issues were with the upgrades & see if you can resolve them. Note: I'm not up to date with Linux Mint, so I'll write as if using Ubuntu systems I know somewhat better.
I use old hardware, and am thus very much aware that certain hardware can run better on specific linux kernels, if you were using a graphics card that lost support with a specific kernel; which stack are you currently using (GA [3.13] or HWE [4.4]) as if it was the HWE stack; you could have upgraded to newer 16.04 & used the same stack (4.4 was the GA stack for Ubuntu 16.04). Linux Mint being Ubuntu based will have the same kernel stack options (choices for LTS).
I'd try and explore why you feel your 14.04 based system performs so well; and look for a supported system that will work. (`uname -r` will tell you the kernel stack you're currently running; only first two numbers matter, eg. I'm using 6.1)
With Ubuntu anyway, you can re-install a system non-destructively; allowing you to actually to install, but keep all your data files, settings etc, which allows a pretty easy 'upgrade via re-install' option (key is you don't format; this works really well with Ubuntu flavors especially; and we at Lubuntu perform Quality Assurance testing of this method).
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Brickwizard
Well-Known Member
What do you consider old,
my laptop is 2010 vintage and runs the latest versions of Mint LMDE, and Parrot
my zg5 is 2008 vintage and runs the latest 32 bit version of Peppermint
My emergency spare laptop is of 2000 vintage and runs the latest 32 bit MX
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Being specific & asking questions may help you to learn.
I've used hardware as old as from 2003 in Quality Assurance of Ubuntu flavors (such as Lubuntu & Xubuntu & more) on releases as late as 19.04 (disco cycle with final release of 2019-April), and for later release uses hardware from 2005 & later.
My current system I've only used since February; as my prior primary PC (a 2009 dell optiplex) finally died & it was ~easier/cheaper to get new (second-hand) than keeping repairing it.
My oldest box used in QA (2005 HP Compaq dc7700) I recently switched out its video card (replacing the nvidia it used with an older AMD/radeon card) as the nvidia was giving me issues with recent kernels & was costing me time & taking away from what I wanted to to test with that box. The replacement card I had spare, but I know it only cost me $3 when I purchased it from a recycler awhile back anyway. If you're using a desktop PC parts can be somewhat easy to replace; alas not so with laptops. Then again you have to be comfortable to change out hardware, and I can understand if you're not (its been a decade since I liked doing it, and you've got a couple of decades on me too).
The easiest way to test out software on your PC is to just write out an ISO to thumb-drive, boot it & use the trial (try ubuntu) or live mode of the system, it can be somewhat slower that if installed (esp. if you've limited RAM, as data on live system is squashed (compressed)) but you can usually detect if you'll have problems.
I'd suggest exploring your problem here, asking for suggestions from others (its all I'm trying to offer anyway; I'm not a Linux Mint user!) as I'd expect on most hardware a supported GNU/Linux can be found (eg. on some of my older 2004-2005 hardware I use in QA of Ubuntu systems, I still actually use but they run Debian now)
April 2027, probably around April 25 or thereabouts.
I dual boot EasyOS and MX. I set aside a partition to accumulate data from both but don't mount it - every time I want to consult the data I have to mount it, a bit of inconvenience for MX but not Easy. Occasionally I copy the data to an external drive for safekeeping.
I use cp instead of backup (cloning) software because of possibility of recovering individual files.
I use cp instead of backup (cloning) software because of possibility of recovering individual files.
Ah, it's not intended to come across as 'heavy'. It's just standard advice we get so used to dishing out to newbies, & those with limited experience. Trouble is, with many we have to be 'firm' with the advice, 'cos Windows refugees - in particular - can be some obstinate so-and-so's at the best of times.......some of 'em don't like being told what to do by anyone.
("Power-users", in particular, are the worst offenders. As far as many of these are concerned, they know it all. There's nothing anyone can tell 'em..!)
I've run into more than my fair share of these in 30-odd years of fora & the old bulletin boards. On two other fora where I moderate, we have to get quite strict with 'em at times! Mostly, these are younger folks; guys of your age-group are, on the whole, a lot easier to help out, 'cos you will at least listen, take stuff 'on-board', think things over, ask sensible questions, etc. It's the youngsters who tend to get 'stroppy', and want to argue the toss over every last little detail.....
I think it's a "generational" thing...
And yes; sometimes even we, who like to 'help out' on forums, occasionally get hold of the "wrong end of the stick". It happens.
Mike.
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@Brickwizard "What do you consider old, ...."
You should really ask that of @guiverc - the one who suggested that older hardware might be a problem. However, just for fun....
... I have several computers both desk- and lap- top, in varying states of health and age (which I haven't checked). Some have stick-on labels like 'dead battery' and 'no WiFi'. One of them still runs Windows 98 which is more-than-somewhat 'EOL' but my wife loves Print Artist 3 and won't give it up. (I can see why; yet another great little program that got 'improved' into bloated useless nonsense).
So how old IS old? The machne I retired most recently was an Inspiron 1525 that I got from a friend who was done with it in 2010. I don't know how long he'd had it but it was a freebie he got for signing up with a provider when 'fast internet' (optical cable) came into our remote town. Anyway, I used it until this year ,running mint 17), but I'd severed its keyboard connection while cleaning the airways, so I was using a wireless KB with it. Then the display quit but I could still use it with an HTML connection to the (old-ish, not 'smart') TV as monitor. Eventually even that stopped workng, but not till we'd enjoyed the setup for many movies on DVD & jump drive. Well RIP Inspiron, it's finally trashed.
I also have a refurbished Dell Latitide, Lenovo 410T, and a Toshiba-something with a French keyboard missing the 'esc' key; my desktops are a Seanix with Win98, an Aspire dual booting XP because I'm not giving up my excellent Quickbooks 4.5, and a 7 year old MSI "Military class 4". In this day & age I don't know how 'old' you'd consider it. All our machines run mint 17 except maybe the Seanix. It could even have mint 8? I forget.
ETA: forgot to mention the Vosttro.
The only security breaches I've been aware of were caused by a naive overseas cousin who has a mailing list a mile long and sends every you-tube he sees, as well as personal stuff, to everybody, with one click; plus a befogged granny in a similarly lax Jewish ladies group. She mis-spelled an edress, thereby adding me to their membership and list. Took me weeks to get off of it.
Thanks for the excuse to rattle away about nothing on a Sunday morning. I'll just add that at my age nearly everything seems new, and everyone young.
Oh, now my reminder says I have to plant the peas today. They're already pre-sprouted so I'd better get on with it.
You should really ask that of @guiverc - the one who suggested that older hardware might be a problem. However, just for fun....
... I have several computers both desk- and lap- top, in varying states of health and age (which I haven't checked). Some have stick-on labels like 'dead battery' and 'no WiFi'. One of them still runs Windows 98 which is more-than-somewhat 'EOL' but my wife loves Print Artist 3 and won't give it up. (I can see why; yet another great little program that got 'improved' into bloated useless nonsense).
So how old IS old? The machne I retired most recently was an Inspiron 1525 that I got from a friend who was done with it in 2010. I don't know how long he'd had it but it was a freebie he got for signing up with a provider when 'fast internet' (optical cable) came into our remote town. Anyway, I used it until this year ,running mint 17), but I'd severed its keyboard connection while cleaning the airways, so I was using a wireless KB with it. Then the display quit but I could still use it with an HTML connection to the (old-ish, not 'smart') TV as monitor. Eventually even that stopped workng, but not till we'd enjoyed the setup for many movies on DVD & jump drive. Well RIP Inspiron, it's finally trashed.
I also have a refurbished Dell Latitide, Lenovo 410T, and a Toshiba-something with a French keyboard missing the 'esc' key; my desktops are a Seanix with Win98, an Aspire dual booting XP because I'm not giving up my excellent Quickbooks 4.5, and a 7 year old MSI "Military class 4". In this day & age I don't know how 'old' you'd consider it. All our machines run mint 17 except maybe the Seanix. It could even have mint 8? I forget.
ETA: forgot to mention the Vosttro.
The only security breaches I've been aware of were caused by a naive overseas cousin who has a mailing list a mile long and sends every you-tube he sees, as well as personal stuff, to everybody, with one click; plus a befogged granny in a similarly lax Jewish ladies group. She mis-spelled an edress, thereby adding me to their membership and list. Took me weeks to get off of it.
Thanks for the excuse to rattle away about nothing on a Sunday morning. I'll just add that at my age nearly everything seems new, and everyone young.
Oh, now my reminder says I have to plant the peas today. They're already pre-sprouted so I'd better get on with it.
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I get that. There is not only a gender gap but also an encultured gap (e.g. wartime austerity; waste NOTHING usable) and a huge gap between how effectively we can communicate on line, techically; as opposed to face-to-face with the computer in front of us.Ah, it's not intended to come across as 'heavy'. It's just standard advice we get so used to dishing out to newbies, & those with limited experience.
Have a good day!
Don't you get scoffed at for saying 'fora'? (Winking back
.)
