Stable arch derivative

OP
S

SeanK

Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2020
Messages
76
Reaction score
54
Credits
383
Thanks everyone for the lively feedback. After testing Arcolinux, OpenSUSE and Endeavour, finally settled on Endeavour. Had to manually add in Pamac which I missed from Manjaro and after making a few tweaks here and there, its running really well. Just need to see how it goes stability wise.
 


dyfet

New Member
Joined
May 26, 2022
Messages
18
Reaction score
19
Credits
208
I ran Endeavour OS for a while to test it long-term. Loved it initially (as a secondary system), but eventually ran into package conflicts. Upon further inspection, Endeavour is not as "pure" as it could/should be. It's an upgrade to Archbuntu ahem, I mean Manjaro, but sadly still not perfect. It still has some non-pure components (just take an older ISO, install it and run an upgrade, you'll see).
I'm not saying it's bad, but if you're willing to put in the time to manually fix a package upgrade/conflict/etc. issue in EndeavourOS/Manjaro/SomeOtherDistro, you may as well pour that energy into installing Arch. Installing Arch is not "difficult" or "technical" or anything. This is a myth. It's actually, IMHO, easier than installing FreeBSD. Just follow one of thousands of recent tutorial videos if you're not confident. I think people find the "building it up" bit daunting. I won't lie, it's tedious setting up a working desktop environment after installing Arch (and that's why I had high hopes for Endeavour OS), but I'd rather put in the extra 20-30min setting up a basic graphical desktop and have a working system. If you want Arch, use Arch, not an Arch-derivative. Consider how much time Manjaro has now wasted: installing, troubleshooting, migrating data/settings, reinstalling another OS. You could've learned how to install Arch in a 5 minute YT video.

One question: Why do you want to run Arch? If you want something bleeding edge that's "easy" and light, just install a base Debian and set the repo to Sid (contrary to popular belief, it's better than testing because you'll get fixes quicker and both can still break and testing is still a little dated), run a full upgrade, then build up your system. Debian has some DE meta-packages that make life very easy and it's a well-supported distro. The only benefit from Arch is more software from AUR, but when you use AUR, you are inviting a little bit of breakage/conflict here and there. That's the nature of Arch.

Make a list of your software needs, choose 3 distros that meet your other needs. Then check them for all the software you want and the first one with everything wins. Don't forget you can use Appimages for any distro where packages are missing.
One advantage I feel Arch has is shallow patches. That is, many packages seemed very close to their upstream. Debian maintainers, by contrast, may extensively patch and maintain a debianized version of upstream. This may be more relevant to developers who want to test and integrate what they are doing against the latest upstream releases relatively unmodified. This was part of why I originally got into using arch long ago. On the other hand, I was never fond of running rolling releases outside of chroot build testing with the latest. My pain point with running rolling releases on a system are the constant updates, and breakage that may happen when updates lapse for too long. There are so many moving pieces when we talk about a full distro.
 

captain-sensible

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2019
Messages
2,856
Reaction score
1,931
Credits
17,660
I've had no problems with Arch but as you mention the constant downloads; due to bandwidth in 3rd World Countries such as Ghana where internet is expensive , electricity can go off at any minute small bandwidth and flacky internet unfortunately Arch is prohibitive to 3rd World Countries, which is a shame. When I was last in Ghana , I was able to install EndeavourOS using "off line " install route.
 

CrazedNerd

Gold Member
Gold Supporter
Joined
Mar 31, 2021
Messages
521
Reaction score
212
Credits
4,457
i personally just wish there was a linux distribution that RELIABLY allows you to download software from each of the package management systems: something that combines .deb, .rpm, and pacman, but that won't happen due to the nature of linux distros. I'll keep my manual partitioning thank you! I'll probably mostly stick with canonical and mint because they've taken care of all my needs in combination so far.
 

Fanboi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2021
Messages
499
Reaction score
406
Credits
6,114
i personally just wish there was a linux distribution that RELIABLY allows you to download software from each of the package management systems: something that combines .deb, .rpm, and pacman, but that won't happen due to the nature of linux distros. I'll keep my manual partitioning thank you! I'll probably mostly stick with canonical and mint because they've taken care of all my needs in combination so far.
If you want something universal, there's:
1. Appimage: The best IMO (especially given recent so exploits).
2. Snaps (Snappy): Dunno that much, just an echo.
3. Flatpak: The most popular.

All these options have caveats, so I suggest you do your own research as the above are just reference links and my opinions are mine, not everyone's.
 

CrazedNerd

Gold Member
Gold Supporter
Joined
Mar 31, 2021
Messages
521
Reaction score
212
Credits
4,457
If you want something universal, there's:
1. Appimage: The best IMO (especially given recent so exploits).
2. Snaps (Snappy): Dunno that much, just an echo.
3. Flatpak: The most popular.

All these options have caveats, so I suggest you do your own research as the above are just reference links and my opinions are mine, not everyone's.
Thanks for the info, i'm soon going to do a wipe again because bluetooth in the mint partition no longer works, and just install ubuntu again with manual partition...I use the min partition for some work tasks so that will have to wait.
 

KGIII

Super Moderator
Staff member
Gold Supporter
Joined
Jul 23, 2020
Messages
6,438
Reaction score
5,711
Credits
51,811
i personally just wish there was a linux distribution that RELIABLY allows you to download software from each of the package management systems:

You *might* be able to do something tricky with Bedrock. I'm not sure, but that seems like something it could do. I keep meaning to give it a shot and to learn more about it.


It's weird. It's not a distro in and of itself.
 

CrazedNerd

Gold Member
Gold Supporter
Joined
Mar 31, 2021
Messages
521
Reaction score
212
Credits
4,457
You *might* be able to do something tricky with Bedrock. I'm not sure, but that seems like something it could do. I keep meaning to give it a shot and to learn more about it.


It's weird. It's not a distro in and of itself.
That's really neat, so you don't have to configure your system to download all the packages i mentioned? It's probably not right for me since this is geared towards pretty advanced linux users (who've used more than mint, Ubuntu, raw debian, mx, Ubuntu Studio, and Fedora...). I'm a little more interested in mastering bash and other linux-friendly programming languages like python and C. I learned a little assembly and C when i was first messing around with linux but that was a long time ago, and i erased all the files lol.
 

KGIII

Super Moderator
Staff member
Gold Supporter
Joined
Jul 23, 2020
Messages
6,438
Reaction score
5,711
Credits
51,811
That's really neat, so you don't have to configure your system to download all the packages i mentioned?

I assume you'd have to configure it. I don't think it just magically works. But, I believe it can be configured to use multiple package managers, accomplishing your goal.
 

CrazedNerd

Gold Member
Gold Supporter
Joined
Mar 31, 2021
Messages
521
Reaction score
212
Credits
4,457
I assume you'd have to configure it. I don't think it just magically works. But, I believe it can be configured to use multiple package managers, accomplishing your goal.
i'll certainly be keeping an eye on bedrock
 

CrazedNerd

Gold Member
Gold Supporter
Joined
Mar 31, 2021
Messages
521
Reaction score
212
Credits
4,457
I've had no problems with Arch but as you mention the constant downloads; due to bandwidth in 3rd World Countries such as Ghana where internet is expensive , electricity can go off at any minute small bandwidth and flacky internet unfortunately Arch is prohibitive to 3rd World Countries, which is a shame. When I was last in Ghana , I was able to install EndeavourOS using "off line " install route.
without getting too off topic...the internet and poverty don't go very well together seemingly. I live in a pretty rural and poor place in the US, it took me years to figure out which would be the best ISP for me since the ISPs don't tell you!

Arch seems great but i've gotten so used to my set of programs and habits, that switching over is kinda frustrating. You have to learn all these new commands to even get it installed, which i would have been more open to when i was getting out of windows.
 

ParadigmComplex

New Member
Joined
May 14, 2021
Messages
4
Reaction score
8
Credits
64
That's really neat, so you don't have to configure your system to download all the packages i mentioned?

I assume you'd have to configure it. I don't think it just magically works.

You do have to do some setup, but it's often as simple as brl fetch <distros> to get it to support the given distros' package management system. For example, if you want access to Debian's, Fedora's, and Arch's packages, you could run brl fetch debian fedora arch and wait a few minutes for it to fetch and setup the corresponding subsystems. After that, you can run apt, dnf, and pacman pretty closely to exactly how you would on the corresponding distros.

It's probably not right for me since this is geared towards pretty advanced linux users (who've used more than mint, Ubuntu, raw debian, mx, Ubuntu Studio, and Fedora...)

Bedrock doesn't necessarily require someone to have experience with different distros, but rather just the distros they're interested in getting features from. If you as a potential Bedrock user just want a system that mixes features from Ubuntu, Debian, and Fedora, you've done all the distro hopping Bedrock would ask of you.

That having been said, Bedrock is arguably better suited for generally more experienced Linux users, just in terms of depth rather than breadth. Bedrock systems are, by their very nature, more complex than traditional distros. If you're not already fairly comfortable with the distros you're getting features from, this lack of comfort will compound as you mix in more distros. If you're just using one distro, you just have to understand that one distro to avoid headaches.

without getting too off topic...the internet and poverty don't go very well together seemingly. I live in a pretty rural and poor place in the US, it took me years to figure out which would be the best ISP for me since the ISPs don't tell you!

While what prompted this was Arch rather than Bedrock, it may be worth noting that Bedrock exacerbates this concern. Bedrock systems often have redundant instances of common dependencies (e.g. multiple otherwise incompatible libc instances), and so regular updates end up updating more things than on traditional distros that can more tightly deduplicate dependencies. This results in more bandwidth consumption than on a traditional distro.

Arch seems great but i've gotten so used to my set of programs and habits, that switching over is kinda frustrating. You have to learn all these new commands to even get it installed, which i would have been more open to when i was getting out of windows.

Bedrock actually helps with this via its package manager manager ("pmm") utility. The main purpose is to let you do multi/cross package manager operations (e.g. update all the packages, search all the package managers and install the highest configured priority one that offers a given package, etc). However, it needs some command format of its own, and in keeping with Bedrock's spirit of letting you get features from other distros, it lets you configure pmm to act like other package manager interfaces. As a result, it effectively lets you translate package manager interface formats across package managers. A Bedrock user doesn't necessarily have to learn all the package manager user interfaces.

That having been said, the user does need to know other parts of the corresponding distro, such as how to configure the given package manager; if the learning curve for a given distro as a whole is problematic, pmm's assistance with the package manager command line interface is of limited value in resolving this concern
 

KGIII

Super Moderator
Staff member
Gold Supporter
Joined
Jul 23, 2020
Messages
6,438
Reaction score
5,711
Credits
51,811
You do have to do some setup, but it's often as simple as brl fetch <distros> to get it to support the given distros' package management system. For example, if you want access to Debian's, Fedora's, and Arch's packages, you could run brl fetch debian fedora arch and wait a few minutes for it to fetch and setup the corresponding subsystems. After that, you can run apt, dnf, and pacman pretty closely to exactly how you would on the corresponding distros.

I remembered that we had a Bedrock person here, but couldn't recall your username.

I keep meaning to make time to tinker with it, but when I have the time I don't have the motivation and when I have the motivation I don't have the time.

Between my obligations here, at my own site, and as a Lubuntu team member, I only have so much "Linux time" in a day. My real-world obligations take up my mornings and sometimes evenings. So, I'm often stretched pretty thin!

Anyhow, I didn't realize it could be that easy but knew it'd require at least some work. I find the Bedrock concept amazing. I really need to take time to learn it.
 

CrazedNerd

Gold Member
Gold Supporter
Joined
Mar 31, 2021
Messages
521
Reaction score
212
Credits
4,457
I think i'm just going to start with trying to install arch on a virtual machine if i have the time and desire to do so...
 
OP
S

SeanK

Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2020
Messages
76
Reaction score
54
Credits
383
I think i'm just going to start with trying to install arch on a virtual machine if i have the time and desire to do so...
I loaded Arch (I had planned to move all my laptops to LMDE) and so far its proving more stable (for me at least) than its derivatives. Found this installer with Calamares and several diff windows managers.

 

Tolkem

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Messages
1,455
Reaction score
1,176
Credits
10,561
I'm looking for a new user friendly Arch derivative thats "stable". Does anyone have any suggestions, positive experiences?
Tumbleweed https://get.opensuse.org/tumbleweed/
1655425593496.png
 

ParadigmComplex

New Member
Joined
May 14, 2021
Messages
4
Reaction score
8
Credits
64
I remembered that we had a Bedrock person here, but couldn't recall your username.

;)

I keep meaning to make time to tinker with it, but when I have the time I don't have the motivation and when I have the motivation I don't have the time.

Between my obligations here, at my own site, and as a Lubuntu team member, I only have so much "Linux time" in a day. My real-world obligations take up my mornings and sometimes evenings. So, I'm often stretched pretty thin!

As Bedrock Linux team member with plenty of real-world obligations outside of Linux I am greatly sympathetic to this situation. There's certainly no pressure to get around to Bedrock on my account. My posts here about Bedrock are intended to clarify matters around it rather than add undue pressure on anyone to try it out.

Anyhow, I didn't realize it could be that easy but knew it'd require at least some work.

It certainly wasn't this easy originally, but it's been in development for over a decade now. While it has some way to go yet, the level of polish is slowly accumulating to the point where it works better than I think most would guess considering its fairly ambitious goal.

I find the Bedrock concept amazing. I really need to take time to learn it.

If it helps relieve the immediate sense of pressure, note the there is a new major version of Bedrock Linux in development (0.8.x) which includes some breaking changes from the current (0.7.x) major version. For someone with adequate free time I think 0.7.x is good enough to play with now, but given your constraint, focusing limited resources on other things while waiting for 0.8.x could be a worthwhile plan.
 

KGIII

Super Moderator
Staff member
Gold Supporter
Joined
Jul 23, 2020
Messages
6,438
Reaction score
5,711
Credits
51,811
For someone with adequate free time I think 0.7.x is good enough to play with now, but given your constraint, focusing limited resources on other things while waiting for 0.8.x could be a worthwhile plan.

I'll keep an eye out for it.

Actually, as you're on the Bedrock team, feel free to make posts concerning Bedrock - such as announcements when versions are released. Few people here reference it or even seem to know it exists - or understand what it actually is.
 

ParadigmComplex

New Member
Joined
May 14, 2021
Messages
4
Reaction score
8
Credits
64
In the upcoming months, Bedrock 0.8's pre-alpha development, alphas, and betas will likely all assume prior Bedrock experience. Provided I recall this conversation once it's through that phase of development and ready for new-to-Bedrock users, I'll be delighted to make a post here about it.
 
$100 Digital Ocean Credit
Get a free VM to test out Linux!

Linux.org Hosting Donations
Consider making a donation

Members online


Top