Very concerned

Vrai

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This is very disconcerting to me. A post was made commenting on what I believe is a valid and timely topic.
Specifically, censorship and the political pendulum.
I believe this is a worthy topic and should be discussed among Linux aficionados.
Unfortunately the "moderator", in zealous proficiency , reached for the "ban hammer" much too quickly, in my opinion.
This topic will and is insinuating itself into the Linux community whether we like it or not.
This forum seems a fine place to discuss, hash-out, argue, and regurgitate the nuances of the topic.
The post could have been moved to "Off Topic" rather than just locking the thread.
I understand, and agree, that "politics" should not inseminate itself into the discussion of Linux. But there are times that Linux users may wish to discuss topics other than "Linux Foo".
Just my opinion.
The thread in question: https://www.linux.org/threads/linux-com-politics-what-is-happening.34529/#post-122249
 


captain-sensible

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other than "Linux Foo".
you forgot "bar" . The post allegedly in question brought back memories to me since on a hard drive there used to be pins and you used "jumpers" basically almost paper clips to decide on config
 

KGIII

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This forum seems a fine place to discuss, hash-out, argue, and regurgitate the nuances of the topic.
The forum has a strict no politics rule. While I'd love to discuss the topic, and may even agree with the sentiments expressed, I made the choice based on the existing rules of this site.

Additionally, I locked it - not deleted it - so that the other moderators have the chance to see it and may open it back up, though I'd expect it to remain heavily moderated if it was opened back up.

I agree entirely that this needs to be discussed. That doesn't make this the right forum for that - at least not with the existing rules.
 

Linuxembourg

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I understand, and agree, that "politics" should not inseminate itself into the discussion of Linux. But there are times that Linux users may wish to discuss topics other than "Linux Foo".
The thread you are referring to would be tedious as f tbh, but I understand your frustration. The problem is you want to still keep keep politics off the board, except when it suits you.

The bigger problem I've found generally is how politics is defined, which is often dished out as a warning by mods in threads that were blatantly already political. You can't have threads describing information security as the biggest threat to mankind and not expect a serious response. Or threads about Royal Families/Popes/etc, however innocently started. Even arguably no threads about Woody Guthrie, Bob Dylan, and Fela Kuti.

You also have the issue of stuff like 'favourite quotes' thread. Can I put MLK, or is that still political? What about something a US founding father said, is that still political? Can I start a thread about "economics" or is that political? Is it still about economics if I say "Hayek and Friedman were both lying shills for business interests"? Can we even discuss stuxnet, is it political if I say who I think did it?
 

wizardfromoz

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I have a number of thoughts on this matter, but I will discuss them with Staff before airing them in Forum.

And I can see all sides of the argument, thanks to those of you for your input.

I have to leave for my evening but hopefully will have more soon.

Wizard
 

f33dm3bits

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I have mixed feelings about the topic in that post, but mostly from what I have read across the internet when it comes to that topic it comes along with a lot extremism and negativity which doesn't do anyone any good. If the mods decide to open the topic again I will share my views on the matter but I will leave as soon as it starts to effect me in a negative way, as negative energy effects most people in a negative way. I rather make love than war.
 

KGIII

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I'd also ask what would we benefit from having such a thread?

I can't think of any benefits from such a thread. It's not going to help anyone. Nobody is going to change their minds based on a thread on linux.org.

I don't have anything personal against such a thread. I'd open it back up again with the blessing of Wizard and the Rob. They too may ask themselves if there's any real benefit to having such a thread.
 

wizardfromoz

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wizardfromoz

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As an exercise, take the phrase

combating offensive terms in computing like master and slave

... put

reddit

on the end, and Google it.

So

combating offensive terms in computing like master and slave reddit

You'll find that Reddit have been covering this for eight years

I'd suggest those with strong opinions on the subject take a wander over there and participate to their heart's content.

Sorry for shouting, but all we need to do is compare Vrai's words

This forum seems a fine place to discuss, hash-out, argue, and regurgitate the nuances of the topic.
and Lord Boltar's

Why open a "can of worms" as they say personally I have no use for such debates it margins on the ridiculous
... and you can see there will be people who are diametrically opposed in their "freedom of thought", but to then argue for freedom of speech to argue the facets of the subject here is only going to lead to flame wars, and I personally want none of that, thank you. :) I hang my hat here for 40 - 50 hours per week to enjoy myself, not to have to deal with Life, The Universe, and Everything (42).

As for Rules?

Do another exercise, even the Mods amongst us. Take a read at

https://www.linux.org/help/terms/

... eight very short paragraphs, and whether you read them or not, you agreed to them when you signed up here.

A link to just one example of other Forums which have considerably more rules than us is at

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forum-rules/

and there are others, likely, just as over-regulated.

However, in our eight, short paragraphs, I would quote, relevantly

All content you submit, upload, or otherwise make available to the Service ("Content") may be reviewed by staff members.
We may remove or modify any Content submitted at any time, with or without cause, with or without notice.
and

If you do not agree with these terms, please do not register or use the Service. Use of the Service constitutes acceptance of these terms. If you wish to close your account, please contact us.
Pretty clear, really.

I find the comments by @Linuxembourg at #4 to be quite reasonable.

My, perhaps too simple, answer would be - If you think what you are about to publish may be borderline, under the Rules ... contact a mod, or ask at

https://www.linux.org/forums/forum-assistance.140/

Friday here in Oz, so to all and sundry

Avagudweegend

Wizard
 

brickwizard

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A few words of wisdom! that I use to impart to new members of staff before I retired....
" Rules are made for the obedience of idiots and as guidance to the wise"

so my questions are where dose changing history change the original outcome, and how can you learn from it if its changed?
and why ban the use of language not because of the words origin but because of its basterdisation
[example I am a PAGAN but I am not a pagan by the modern Americanised definition but by its original pre-saxon definition which simply means " a country dweller"]
 

wizardfromoz

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Haha, it's hard to be off-topic in Off Topic, I suppose, but Bwiz you might want to start up a Thread here on linguistics and semantics?

Cheers
 

MatsuShimizu

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I understand why this forum doesn't allow politics. I've seen that being done on another forum.

If this forum is opened for political discussion, new members who never posted elsewhere will keep posting in the political thread. Then, we will see lots of nonsense from all over the internet being posted.

It is no longer a discussion, it is a bashing thread and I would stay away from that.
 
Last edited:

brickwizard

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OK @wizardfromoz .. try this one
there are two subjects that could ruin a good friendship....politics and football [or for the antipodeans cricket and politics]
 

stan

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Haha, it's hard to be off-topic in Off Topic, I suppose
Here is a quote from FreeBSD's Off Topic Rules:
Can one go "too off-topic"? Yes.

We will not allow technical/support questions about any operating system other than FreeBSD anywhere on this forum. That includes the Off-Topic forum. Always ask technical/support questions about other operating systems on the forums or mailing lists associated with those operating systems. A quick Google should bring those right up.

Also, anything violating the forum rules is always "too off-topic".
There is no "free speech" on a private platform. Not Twitter, not Facebook, and not linux.org. Speech is moderated to enforce rules. Rules can change. And Off Topic could also disappear entirely, solely at @Rob's discretion.

I don't think anyone would dispute that the goal of linux.org is to provide technical assistance to those using (or wanting to use) Linux. That's really why we all come here. Many have found Off Topic to be a social playground for other interests, but there are many other venues for your other interests if you can't abide the rules.

I am rarely in Off Topic. I prefer to spend my time on linux.org in technical forums, reading and learning, or sometimes offering assistance. If a mod deletes a provocative user or thread, or moves it to Off Topic, I appreciate it very much. :cool::)
 

KGIII

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I think we've addressed the concerns of OP, and I'd like this to not turn into a 'dog-pile' thread.

@Vrai voiced their concerns. The subject has been hashed out and the final decision has been made. There's not much further this thread can go while still being beneficial.

Thank you for bringing this to our attention and letting us know how you feel about it. There are still tons of topics we can discuss, both in the main forum and in the off-topic section.
 

Nelson Muntz

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Screw politics on a forum it's just not the place as even if a poster isn't meaning to be political other posters will eventually turn it political.

Certain topics instigate trouble and therefore have no place in certain arenas.

I tell my three children "if ya can't follow the rules for the playground then ya can't play on the playground".

I don't always like rules however I abide and try to respect the rules that are in place.
 

darry1966

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I think there are some insidious things that go on in this world, we are bombarded by headlines. It is nice to have somewhere we can just enjoy talking about positive stuff, both about Linux and fun off-topic stuff (as long as this remains a forum to help people with Linux and related).

I often suffer from depression and this place is a haven and enjoy the company of people - camaraderie - hell its almost like a pub.
 
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