Which distro for me? (I know there are gazillions out there...)

[Goatmilk]

Hello,

I'm a bit at a loss to decide which Linux to go with as a total newbie. So far. from all I've read, I think it has to be something based on stable Debian. For now, I have an old laptop to run it on (Dell Latitude E6500, 4 gb RAM). I thought LMDE6 would be perfect for me, but it is so stinking slow and sluggish on that laptop it's no fun. I'm quite sure there are things one could do to fix that, but right now that's not an option for someone who thinks sudo is that game where you have to guess numbers in a box.

So I'm looking for a very light Linux distro, Debian based, stable and quick on an age old laptop like mine. I'd prefer one with as little stuff on it as possible, but the option to get what I need later on.

I'm a dinosaur, stubborn as a mule, technically totally illiterate and I hate to change. I'm sitting on a closed off Windows 7 x86 for years and years, partially because I have to run some antique programs for work, but also because I simply dislike to change what I'm used to. Hey, I've got a kerosene lamp on my desk and a rotary dial phone from the 1950s.

But alas, Windows 7 is slowly getting a bit long in the tooth and I need to look for the future. I got an android tablet now to assist it, but I just use it to watch the news and jot down a few notes on the run. What I do need, however, is a main computer that can handle 'the modern world', particularly the internet, streaming etc. My 32bit system is getting to the end of its tether here.

My plan is to find a Linux I can get used to, take a year or so to learn it and at least grasp what it's doing, use the laptop to do so, and later, once that is accomplished, put it on a big new computer as my main os and run my indispensable Windows 7 in a virtual box. Or even xp, considering all the archiving software from work is actually from the late 90s... . There are but a few programs I really need Windows 7 for, and all the rest could go to Linux. I've seen a lot of my old progs do have their Linux counterparts. Thunderbird, for once. Most of my browsers, Firefox, Palemoon, Opera. VLC is on Linux. WinAmp probably isn't, but I'm sure there is a good enough equivalent. Same for Audacity and Avidemux and all the image stuff.

Other than surfing, watching movies and listening to music, I need my Calibre library and an office suite. I'm used to Apache Open Office, but I've read Libre Office isn't that different and hopefully even compatible. Can it read odt? As for the one and only computer game I love to play, it might have to wait for wine. It's from 2009 or so, it should work. Hopefully.

Wondering about protecting software, like Shadow Defender, which runs a system in a virtual environment when going online. I absolutely need it right now, given that my Windows 7 is a closed off NLite/WSUS-Offline installation that has never seen a Windows update in its life, but I guess I'll have to look for new options when going with Linux.

After all I read about Linux, I really thought Debian 12 would be mine to go with (even the name, Bookworm, speaks to me), and I went for LMDE6 because it promised to be the idiot-proof beginner-friendly version for Windows users. Unfortunately, my laptop wasn't up for the task. Ran fast enough with Windows 7, but I guess it isn't made for a modern os of nowadays.

A double boot system on my main computer is out of the question. Can't risk the working machine. Besides, as a Windows 7 x86, it also has 4 gb of ram only.

So I'm looking for a light, a very light Linux for the laptop and closed in on some. Q4os is said to be light (but so was LMDE6, come to think of it...). Then I looked at Pure os. I like that it says it comes with only the most basic things and you can go and get what you need yourself - I hate it when a device is stuffed full with programs I don't use, don't need, don't know and probably cannot even delete. But, Pure os it is said to be a 'rolling release'. Probably like Android, updating and changing stuff every five minutes. Gah!

Maybe someone here has a suggestion for me - I would appreciate it.

Oh, and I would like to have something with transparent menus. I mean, if I take the pains to go modern, I'd like to have some of the bells and whistles...

Thanks so much for reading,

Goatmilk

 

[Brickwizard]

Welcome Youn'en
Your machine is of 2008 vintage with [this is the important bit] A core 2 P8700 CPU, good in its day running xp or win7, it will have a plate spinner hard drive, you can increase its speed by swapping out the plate spinner for an SSD.
yours is similar spec to my laptop [dell insperon] which is in use daily [it has an SSD] it runs a selection of distributions, including Mint LMDE, MX-linux, Parrot home & Debian stable, they are all medium weight distributions, you can install a lighter one but being more basic they will be lacking in features[bells and whistles] , these you can add, but then they will become middleweights not lightweights,
so my suggestions are first up grade to an ssd if funds are available
some will say increase the ram, but 4gb is max for that motherboard so no point trying
some of the lighter distros in no particular order. [there are others]
Peppermint
Lubuntu
Anti-x
Bunsen labs
Linux-lite
LXLE

 

[kc1di]

Hello @Goatmilk
Welcome to the linux.org forum, enjoy the journey!
My advise to new users is to try several live usb distros and pick the one that 1. works well with your hardware, 2. meets your personal computing needs and 3. is pleasing for your to use.
That being said, the following maybe of interest.
debian 12 - XFCE (not gnome) or KDE
Linux Mint XFCE or mate
Mx Linux xfce or KDE.
any of those should work for you.
Good luck in your search. And we will be here to help if needed.
This page maybe of help in learning Linux also Linux is not windows
Linux Journey

 

[Goatmilk]

Thank you very much, Brickwizard.

Funds are quite tight these days, but before I go get a ssd for the old thing, I might be better off looking at ebay for a used notebook that already has that. Decent ones with ssd and 8 gb of RAM go for about 100 Euros from business sellers (where you have an option to return it when something's wrong). Lenovo ThinkPads, for example, around ten or less ys old.

Considering that my hardware mastering skills are pretty much limited to putting power plugs into wall sockets, this might be a better option for me.

 

[MikeWalsh]

Your machine is of 2008 vintage with [this is the important bit] A core 2 P8700 CPU, good in its day running xp or win7, it will have a plate spinner hard drive, you can increase its speed by swapping out the plate spinner for an SSD.

....and the good thing about this is that it's a 64-bit CPU, with quite a decent instruction-set (so you won't be restricted to 32-bit OSs, which are becoming fewer and fewer).

Microsoft always did this. Manufacturers, even with 64-bit machines were - in the early days - "encouraged" to install the 32-bit version of Windows.....because this then left wiggle-room for Microsoft to promote an upgrade to the 64-bit version as being better & more secure (making more money out of the user in the process, of course!)

Remember; commercially-available 64-bit processors have in fact been around since 2004 - 20 yrs ago - with the introduction of the now-legendary, wildly successful AMD Athlon 64.

This was the CPU that kicked it all off.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~​

I have a Latitude D630 - even older than yours - with an earlier Core2Duo , 4 GB RAM and a 128 GB SSD. I snagged this on eBay a couple of years ago, when the even older 2002-vintage Inspiron finally popped its clogs after 20 yrs of faithful service.

Some idiot had shoe-horned Windows 10 on there, so the first order of service was nuking this with extreme prejudice. I then set-up a dual-boot with a pair of 'Puppies' (Puppy Linux).....a featherweight distro that works beautifully with this old hardware, though I won't recommend her to a beginner, because she's unlike any other distro out there. If you decide to try out another Linux distro, you'd basically have to start from scratch again....and THAT doesn't make much sense.

Far better to start with the mainstream distros, get some understanding & skills under your belt, THEN give Puppy a try at a later date. It's only once you begin to understand Linux that you can appreciate just HOW different 'Puppy' is.


Mike.

 

[Brickwizard]

Considering that my hardware mastering skills are pretty much limited

to change the HDD for an SSD on your machine would take me less than 2 mins, so for you say 10 mins max, you need a small non-magnetic crosshead screwdriver and the ability to be methodical, you do not even need to strip the case, just release the 2 retaining screws and pull out the old one, you will not be able to re-use the carrier or retaining screws as the ssd doesn't quite line up, so just shove the SSD in all the way

 

[Goatmilk]

Thank you, kc1di. I've never been the demo-trying type, particularly not with something I'm not familiar with. Some years ago I've been through several Linux life cds or whatchamacallits, figured none was mine because icon so-and-so wasn't where I thought it ought to be, and left it. I'm a lazy bugger. I work best if something's thrown at me with "learn that or else". If I must, there's a vague chance I actually learn. If I have an option, I sit back and read a book.

Thank you, Mike. Actually both the laptop and my main computer can do 64bit and actually came with 64bit systems. I had to change them to 32bit because some of the old programs wouldn't run. The LMDE6 that I have on my laptop right now is a 64bit version. Maybe that's why it's slow, but I'm not very well informed about the architecture stuff. Being stuck on my 32bit, there never really was a need to look into it.

If I recall right, even XP had a 64bit version, but that was wildly exotic.

 

[User740985915675054]

My recommendation is to go with Debian 12 with XFCE as the desktop environment. It doesn't come with bloatware so you can add what you need. But if you want something even more beginner friendly and light as well you can try MX Linux. It comes with good documentation which tells you of the commonly used programs/apps/commands. Good for beginners. MX Linux comes with a lot of useful tools and programs but if you want to start bare and add what you need try Debian XFCE or LXDE as those are the two lightest desktop enviroments.

I use Calibre and Libreoffice on Debian and MX Linux and they work well.

 

[Goatmilk]

"... and the ability to be methodical..."

Somewhere on a cloud up there, my friend is sitting crying tears of laughter. He was the one who did all the technical stuff around here. And he always had a blast when I started the fight with my computer and he ended up saving the mess I created. God, he had the patience of an old sheep.

 

[Mike13Foxtrot]

I will also add MX with XFCE, have it installed on most of my PC's and laptops. Even had it on an old dell with Dual core and 2GB ram and it ran fine, until that laptop copped out. Have it on an older All-in One Dell that I found in a St Vincent De Paul shop for 20 bucks. Sign on to my bank and pay bills on that one. Have Mint on 1 dual boot gaming machine. But my goto is MX ease of installation of what you want, easy to update. Customizable all around.

 

[Goatmilk]

I'm looking at MX Linux on YouTube right now and have started downloading it. I'll give it a try on the laptop. What I particularly like are the welcome screens full of catchwords to look up - that's probably better than relying on something 'Windows-like', considering that my Windows looks like something even Bill Gates probably wouldn't recognize.

Babysteps...

 

[Condobloke]

Considering that my hardware mastering skills are pretty much limited to putting power plugs into wall sockets, this might be a better option for me.

Good to see someone with a flexible sense of humour.

LMDE6 would be perfect for me, but it is so stinking slow

That surprises me... there may be a bit of hoohah going on with the 32 bit thingie..
On a 64 bit system lmde6 is usually quick....very quick....as most linux OS's are.

sudo is that game where you have to guess numbers in a box.

As you start using Linux try using the Terminal....the 'commands' are all written down on a web page Or someone here will feed them to you....always copy and paste them into the terminal...it saves on typos (the terminal is not forgiving where typos are concerned.) if it can be arranged, make your password something that is easy to type.....it gets to be inserted in the terminal numerous time, so it gets to be a pain if it is difficult to type...

I've got a kerosene lamp on my desk and a rotary dial phone from the 1950s.

You too !

Just for the record....32 but systems are OUT. More trouble than they are worth now.

listening to music, I need my Calibre library and an office suite. I'm used to Apache Open Office, but I've read Libre Office isn't that different and hopefully even compatible. Can it read odt? As for the one and only computer game I love to play, it might have to wait for wine. It's from 2009 or so, it should work. Hopefully.

Wondering about protecting software, like Shadow Defender,

Before I go on....I will just point out that the Majority of software will either already be installed in most Linux OS's.....and if it is not then there is a 'Software Manager' in most Linux distros/OS's....it will have 90%+ of anything else you need/want

Music. download for free from youtube or wherever via Video Downloader....(software manager)
Calibre....download for free form software manager
office suite....Libre...comes already installed in Linux...or Apache from : https://sourceforge.net/projects/op...ies/en-US/Apache_OpenOffice_4.1.15_Linux_x86-64_install-deb_en-US.tar.gz/download
Libre office opens odt files...."the best way to open an odt document is to start LibreOffice, select Writer, then use menu File → Open and navigate to the document desired.

computer game....what is its name.....plenty of gamers here, they will soon tell you.

protection Software....you mean like an antivirus/antimalware etc. The vast majority of Linux users DO NOT use av software....that is nox, none, zero, nada
Just keep your browser secure and you are ok.

Thunderbird, for once. Most of my browsers, Firefox, Palemoon, Opera. VLC is on Linux. WinAmp probably isn't, but I'm sure there is a good enough equivalent. Same for Audacity and Avidemux and all the image stuff.

Thunderbird....integral aprt of Linux
Firefox....also integral part of Linux
Palemoon browser.....bit complicated to install : https://www.palemoon.org/download.shtml
Opera browser...via the Software Manager
VLC....via the Software Manager
WinAmp....media player....Not on Linux.....but there are a million and one media players either in the Software manager or easly available. VLC plays any media, it is not restricted to video, Celluloid, MPV, Deadbeef, Audcity, Avidemux for video editing etc etc

Virtual Machine.....via the Software Manager...if you ned help setting it up there are lots of members use it. In a new PC, you could always run your closed off win7 on a separate drive. That keeps it safe.

On the question of drives....ssd's are not as expensive as they used to be....you may be surprised.
The uptick in speed after a HDD is .....WOW !



transparent menus....no idea.

Recommendation; If you find a used notebook etc etc....try for one with 8gb of ram....that has become the "new normal"...with an ssd...(250GB is usually good...depends whether you keep movies on it....they soak up a lor of space).....
I use an external drive to store movies, tv shows, and all sorts of good stuff on......the external holds around 2TB. I also use it to store things called Snapshots. They are churned out by an 'app' called Timeshift (also an integral part of Linux)
It is similar to windows restore.....the main difference being that it WORKS) It uses a bot of space, but is invaluable

Still getting to that recommendation.....

Linux Mint Cinnamon. (assuming a notebook or better) ( If on your laptop, Linux Mint xfce)

Why?
It should have a relatively familiar feel
Has more support than any other distro on this forum ( I'm a dinosaur, stubborn as a mule, technically totally illiterate and I hate to change.)...

Just thought about Software manager....it is an integral part of Linux Mint. Installing any of the apps from there (apps in Linux, programs in windows)...is as simple as two clicks and your password.
That puts the app in the menu...easy to find. you can put the app on the panel (task bar)...by right clicking it in the menu and selecting add to panel

ramble ramble....yeah....I talk too much

Edit to ADD:....did I see 'baby steps'...?.....LOL

 

[Brickwizard]

Another thought
If you do look at another re-use machine, avoid Atom and celeron CPU's they are not a lot better than you have already

 

[ron.alan]

My 2¢ would be go with the Devuan-based Peppermint Linux.

https://peppermintos.com/download-and-install/

 

[Battledoge21]

If you want something lightweight and Debian-based, then WattOS is the distro for you! It has a simple, lightweight Desktop Enviroment (LXDE) and I'm literally running it on a Chromebook! Never had any performance issues with it.

 

[The Duck]

I suggest creating a bootable usb drive and give a few distros a test and see which suits your computer and you and then install and use.

 

[Egzoset]

...Dell Latitude E6500...

The bottleneck seems to be SATA II / USB 2, so it's about file transfer speed all right! IMO a Puppy in To RAM mode might provide some viable solution. MX has that option too, plus a few others. But then the trade-off becomes sessions "persistence" i think...


P.S.: PupFoss96 and Sparky both seem compatible with my external 'YUMi-exFAT' USB unit too.

 

[Goatmilk]

Thank you all so much!

As for the distro, I have installed MX Linux 23.3 64bit yesterday and I'm loving it. Much more that the LMDE6 before, and not just because it is faster and feels lighter. This time, I used gparted to split the hdd in two (I'm used to have all my stuff far away from the os partition), and this probably helped it to be quicker than LMDE. Either way, I think it's mine. Now the question is not to get a new laptop but a new main computer - can't wait to change!

But of course, some little problems, even though up to now I've only installed Vivaldi and moved the vertical panel from one side of the screen to the other. Oh, and changed that Conky thingy...

1. Is it okay for the os to go online the moment it's loaded? I'd never let Windows do that before I hadn't my protection up.
(@ Condobloke - with protection I mean Shadow Defender or before that, TimeFreeze. They will virtualize the c: drive, put it in some kind of sandbox, so you can go online, do loads of nonsense, and then when you shut down the computer, everything is back to how it was before. Nice to have when trying out programs, too. I didn't run an antivirus ever since I figured out they were mere resource hogs. I trot out the on-demand scanners every other week or so, visit Eset or TrendMicro once in a while, and that's it. And my system is fine).

2. As for security, the integrated firewall is good enough? I left it on its default settings.

3. I noticed there seemed to be no portable programs. With Windows, I'm used to go for portables whenever possible. Anything that doesn't touch the registry is good. I usually install them under SD, save the resulting folder on another partition, reboot, and if they won't run, I won't use them. However, Linux seems to install everything, right into its root. Is that safe?

4. Another Windows damage is the horror of updates. If you let Windows updates run wild, the system blows up like a balloon. That's why I used WSUS Offline where smarter folks than me had figured out what was safe and actually required, ran it and that was it. Never had a Windows update again.

Now I did run a full upgrade on MX Linux because some guy on YouTube said so, but would I really need every one? This morning, it had found six new updates it wanted to have.

5. Windows damage again - what about services? I left them alone, of course - but are they something where people go and tweak? To make it faster, or leaner, or safer? Or just a bit lighter for an old machine?

6. When the system comes up (could still be a little faster...) it stops a while with these messages:
[ 0.185594] x86/cpu: VMX (outside TXT) disabled by BIOS
[ 2.942197] 1801_smbus 000:00:1f.3: Transaction timeout
[ 3.146190] 1801_smbus 000:00:1f.3: Transaction timeout

Could that be something that needs looking after?

7. Is there a way to get that Tuna Commander to keep the double pane view? Every time it comes up, it has a single pane again. It's a tidbit, really, as it takes just a click to have split view - but I'm just a Free Commander freak.

8. Where do I find network connection properties, that is the spot where I can change the dns server address to 1.1.1.1?
Cloudflare website says, "Go to Show Applications > Settings > Network" - but there is none in MX.

9. What exactly is the name of that start menu thing that looks like a Windows start menu? The first thing I ALWAYS install in a new Windows ever since XP reared its ugly head was Classic Shell - to get rid of that start menu... lol

10. Should I take the trouble and move or copy the Thunderbird data or should I wait until the 'real' MX Linux machine gets installed? I do have a row of web based email programs, so it's not that I couldn't get any emails. Not even sure if the Linux Thunderbird could read the data folder of the Windows Thunderbird. They're different versions, too, 52.6.0 (32-bit) vs whatever the new one is. It won't let me look without going through the whole setup process.

10. That's another thing - is there a program, like Free Commander, where you can look up everything that actually is on the hard drive, including programs, so you could go there and check, "Aha, Thunderbird, here's the readme.txt, it's version so and so". I did find Thunderbird in Tuna, but found no read me, could see no version info, couldn't make heads or tails from it all and went out before I broke something.

I'm aware it's beginner's blindness, but maybe there is just the program I need and just haven't found yet. I must admit it's a bit confusing as to what is installed, or what's merely a suggestion for the download center.

11. I wish I hadn't set a password. I swear that thing asks for authorization every time the cat walks by. Is there a way I can change that so it just asks for the log in or maybe the most utterly important things? I'm the only user here.

Again, thank you all so much, just for being there.

I'm sure it won't be long until the next row of questions and problems comes up...

 

[Brickwizard]

. I wish I hadn't set a password. I swear that thing asks for authorization every time the cat walks by. Is there a way I can change that so it just asks for the log in or maybe the most utterly important things? I'm the only user here.

Nature of the beast, MX leans towards the office user, so is set up with the "are you sure" security, so it will question you whenever you do anything that encroaches on the main applications or the Kernel [there are others that do a similar thing] you will be fine when you get use to it.
and yes OOTB is a little faster, BUT if you start to chop and change the apps that are re preinstalled, you will slow it down a little

 

[Goatmilk]

It should have a relatively familiar feel
Has more support than any other distro on this forum ( I'm a dinosaur, stubborn as a mule, technically totally illiterate and I hate to change.)...

That's my desktop. So when I say I want something to look like my old Windows 7, it's probably a wee bit misleading...