Another "Quandary" (regarding updates)

jglen490

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Yet.


Me neither! I like the idea of 'ppa's' but it seems to introduce 'problems' almost as often as it 'fixes' them. I tend to stick with whatever is in the repo's of the distro I am using.


Well, yes. Maybe that! :)


Exactly what I was referring to.


I'm not quite up to that level of 'Linux Guru' yet! Unlike some Slackware users er..ahem ( @captain-sensible ) ...


I don't think I "know better" than the Linux devs who package and maintain the distro of choice. But I do try to be an informed and educated Linux user.
I just raise the issue to encourage constructive debate on an issue important to all Linux users.
25 +/- years of Linux and BSD, maybe the time will come eventually when some Linux will crash my PC. Of course, I've had failures, but they were ALL hardware.
;)

But in any case, I'm no "guru", either. I've just paid attention to what works, and enjoy using a computing platform that doesn't begin with "W". My point about the comment as to what happens on other distro-specific forums, is that users - and mostly immature users - think they can slap anything on any platform with any other software and expect it to "just work", and then bitch when it doesn't. Unless, you are just playin', or have a playground PC/laptop, don't put your system at risk of failure. Yes, software can kill hardware, and putting random stuff on top of something designed to work and be scalable IS a recipe for failure.

Linux has aspects of freedom (as in beer, as in speech, etc.), but chaos is not a part of that equation.
 


sp331yi

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Using stable (14.2).
Like Debian Sid, but havent 'graduated ' to current, yet. LOL!
 

jglen490

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Perhaps Debian Handbook, Section 6.2.5 or Kali's Advanced APT Configuration, Section 8.3.2 -- both about pinning packages, may be apropos at this point. Been in 'dependency hell' with 'buntus and debian both, myself. (Another reason to use Slackware, which I do, too!)
Wow, "dependency hell". Haven't heard that one in a couple of decades.

I can't speak for Debian itself, but with the *buntus, that's not going to happen unless you try to upgrade from an EOL version, or have installed an outside .deb, compiled from source, used a sketchy PPA, or something like that. If it's excessive control, then don't use the *buntus.
 

captain-sensible

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Using stable (14.2).
Like Debian Sid, but havent 'graduated ' to current, yet. LOL!
thats ok i used stable for a long time . i'm on current but tend to do complete upgrade not too often and with some care. i'm on kernel 5.4.12 but no dependency issue everything works etc. So i choose next upgrade with some caution
 

captain-sensible

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i thought i might briefly mention T.C plight which i believe Wiz will sort out. @70 Tango Charlie did an update in good faith , his printer was working before, now its not https://linux.org/threads/printer-problem.28514/post-89097

we don't know yet exact issue, but i think thats why i wanted more control and lost some faith after a few melt downs with last using Debian descendants. You click update and it causes a problem is that down in part to a too quick a release cycle or generally rushing it . Slackware was last released 3 years ago but i'm pretty sure next stable will be rock solid
 

sp331yi

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@jglen490

" . . . installed an outside .deb, compiled from source . . ." I can't do these two things? WTF?

"Linux has aspects of freedom (as in beer, as in speech, etc.), but chaos is not a part of that equation."

Freedom, as in Liberty, is, yes, compromised in some distros . . . therefore,

Long live kaos! (and Slackware) LOL!

Just having fun!
 

jglen490

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I get it. Absolutely, have fun, but when things go wrong, don't blame the distro. Each of them is designed and built to have a certain stability, ease of use, and controlled updates. Not every outside .deb, not every compile it yourself .tgz, not every PPA is evil. The more disruption is input, the less stable, less easy to manage, and the harder it is to reconcile updating software - especially security patches. And sometimes security patches just don't show up, leaving you vulnerable.

You are free to do what you want, and when it implodes, then you are free to start all over again!
 

jglen490

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On a play-toy, yes. On a production or primary computer, it sucks ....
 

jglen490

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Take notes, make a specific mistake once.

Then invest in sticky note manufacturers ;);)
 

VP9KS

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Like I tell my students, When the machine runs perfectly all the time, you never learn anything about it. When you have to troubleshoot it, then you learn!:)
I also tell them ¨you don have to memorize everything about the robot, just know where to find the information you need to fix it.¨ Then I show them where to find that information, as we(meaning I say, and they actually do) tear it apart piece by piece, and put it back together again. Funny how it works when they are finished, and they have no extra parts leftover.

Like old Ben said
¨Tell me and I forget,
Show me and I may remember
Involve me, and I learn.¨

Happy Trails
Paul
 

wizardfromoz

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And this all brings me around to the issue of 'telemetry'. I think @wizardfromoz posted something the other day about Zorin collecting some sort of telemetry
and

With Zorin, they call it, "census" and it was enabled by default (with no notice) on their new version 15.0, which is what caused such a stir. Now, with updated version 15.1, they have an option box during install that must be checked to disable it. Or it can be removed with sudo apt purge zorin-os-census.

Just a bump-like update to this Thread, particularly to do with the "Zorin phone home" aspect.

Zorin have addressed this with their releases from 15.1, and that is reflected in their updated Privacy Policy here

https://zorinos.com/legal/privacy/

which says, in part

  • Census. When using Zorin OS, your computer may send us a ping which only includes the number of users, an anonymous identifier for the installation, Zorin OEM partner batch (if applicable), and your OS version on an hourly basis. We use this information to count the number of active users of Zorin OS. The identifier is only used for the census (to prevent double-counting) and does not personally identify you unless you (or someone acting on your behalf) discloses it separately. Below is a sample of the contents of the ping:
    {id:"68f2d95b-f51f-4a5d-9b48-a99c28691b89", usercount:"1", oembatch:"", version:"15"}
    You may choose to disable these pings by selecting the "Don't participate in the census" option in the Zorin OS installer or entering this Terminal command after installing Zorin OS: sudo apt remove zorin-os-census
Cheers and Avagudweegend

Wizard
 


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