Systemd vs Sysvinit

darry1966

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Ok guys here is your opportunity to put forward your thoughts on these 2 initialization systems.

I used to be very anti-systemd but have found it not to bad when using Debiandog (Based Debian Live with homemade utilities to make it behave like Puppy).

You can also talk about OpenRC or any other alternatives if want.
 


wizardfromoz

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Geez, you're quick, Kiwi mate :)

I have to wrap up some loose ends elsewhere, but I'll be back tomorrow with some thoughts.

Cheers

Chris
 

darry1966

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To add some food for thought..... sites which are anti-systemd....
 
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sp331yi

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Linus 'says it all!'
Linus Torvalds Blocks All Code from Systemd Developer for the Linux Kernel
The developer needs to fix the problems in systemd before his patches are accepted

Apr 3, 2014 14:24 GMT By Silviu Stahie

Linus Torvalds

Linus Torvalds seems to be very upset with a famous developer who had the wrong attitude towards the users and the Linux kernel developers.

Everything started from a bug in systemd that caused the operating system to fail to boot. A solution has been proposed, but not uptream for systemd, but for the Linux kernel, and a patch was submitted. Basically, the bug was still there in systemd, but code has been added to the Linux kernel so that this problem would be circumvented.
The patch was submitted to the kernel, but Linus Torvalds is not a big fan of adding code to the Linux kernel just to fix a problem from another package. He is not a patient man and this is not the first time that he intervened.

“Key, I'm [expletive] tired of the fact that you don't fix problems in the code *you* write, so that the kernel then has to work around the problems you cause. Greg - just for your information, I will *not* be merging any code from Kay into the kernel until this constant pattern is fixed. This has been going on for *years*, and doesn't seem to be getting any better.”

“I am *not* willing to take patches from people who don't clean up after their problems, and don't admit that it's their problem to fix. Kay - one more time: you caused the problem, you need to fix it. None of this ‘I can do whatever I want, others have to clean up after me’ [expletive],” said Linus Torvalds.

The developer that is being referenced in the mail is Kay Sievers and apparently, this is not the first heated discussion he had with Linus. Kay Sievers is now working at Red Hat and he is a developer for udev, systemd, and the Gummiboot EFI boot loader.

Linus Torvads doesn't have any preferential treatment for the Linux kernel developers. He has often scolded developer from problems in the kernel, and he has made numerous comments about people who add unnecessary code to the kernel. He has even said a few times that a good day is when someone removes line of code from the kernel.

It's unsure how this conflict between an important, and apparently stubborn, systemd developer and Linus Torvalds will end, but Linus is the gatekeeper, so the Red Hat developer might need to clean up his act.
Some people want the Linux kernel compromised. I am immediately suspicious of them. RedHat and Ubuntu are included!

Not FUD, just Food for thought: Ian Murdoch had to die before systemd was added to Debian. Who/what is at the bottom of this tragedy?

As my dad used to say, "Nothing is as it appears."
 
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Tolkem

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Linus 'says it all!'

Some people want the Linux kernel compromised. I am immediately suspicious of them. RedHat and Ubuntu are included!

Not FUD, just Food for thought: Ian Murdoch had to die before systemd was added to Debian. Who/what is at the bottom of this tragedy?

As my dad used to say, "Nothing is as it appears."
This is from 2014, not saying it isn't relevant today but then again, is it really? What does Linus say today about this? Have those problems been solved? I've tried/used both init systems and found they both have its own strengths and flaws, that being said, I don't know if I prefer one over the other, after all, I use the defaults so it really makes no difference to me; antiX works great, it uses SysV and so do Q4OS, it uses SystemD, both are Debian based distros. I've read quite a few of those debates on SysV vs SystemD and frankly most of those who oppose SystemD and say it's a "diabolical thing", seems to me most of them are people who don't like changes, they've been using SysV for so long they don't want things to change, and most of those who say SysV is an "obsolete" thing and must be replaced with a "new, better" alternative, seem to be the kind of people obsessed with "progress", "the future" and "new things" but they have no idea what those things really are, well, at least that's how I see it, maybe I'm the one who's wrong ... who knows? ;)
 
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I've tried/used both init systems and found they both have its own strengths and flaws, that being said, I don't know if I prefer one over the other, after all, I use the defaults so it really makes no difference to me; antiX works great, it uses SysV
I use both systems also use defaults and can't tell / see any difference although I guess if one is a hairsplitter they will find differences and complain.

I've read quite a few of those debates on SysV vs SystemD and frankly most of those who oppose SystemD and say it's a "diabolical thing", seems to me most of them are people who don't like changes, they've been using SysV for so long they don't want things to change, and most of those who say SysV is an "obsolete" thing and must be replaced with a "new, better" alternative, seem to be the kind of people obsessed with "progress", "the future" and "new things" but they have no idea what those things really are, well, at least that's how I see it, maybe I'm the one who's wrong ... who knows? ;)
I agree and nope you ain't wrong.

The old hard cores who are unwilling to roll with new changes will more than likely always remain in the horse and buggy days. :p:D


My 2 pennies worth. ;)
 

sp331yi

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This is from 2014, not saying it isn't relevant today but then again, is it really? What does Linus say today about this? Have those problems been solved? I've tried/used both init systems and found they both have its own strengths and flaws, that being said, I don't know if I prefer one over the other, after all, I use the defaults so it really makes no difference to me; antiX works great, it uses SysV and so do Q4OS, it uses SystemD, both are Debian based distros. I've read quite a few of those debates on SysV vs SystemD and frankly most of those who oppose SystemD and say it's a "diabolical thing", seems to me most of them are people who don't like changes, they've been using SysV for so long they don't want things to change, and most of those who say SysV is an "obsolete" thing and must be replaced with a "new, better" alternative, seem to be the kind of people obsessed with "progress", "the future" and "new things" but they have no idea what those things really are, well, at least that's how I see it, maybe I'm the one who's wrong ... who knows? ;)
Linus Torvalds apologizes for years of being a jerk, takes time off to learn empathy
And Linux has adopted a real code of conduct to replace its previous "code of conflict."
Peter Bright - 9/17/2018, 10:20 PM

Linus Torvalds flips off Nvidia.

Linus Torvalds flips off Nvidia.
aaltouniversityace
491 with 216 posters participating
Linux creator Linus Torvalds has apologized for years of rants, swearing, and general hostility directed at other Linux developers, saying he's going to take a temporary break from his role as maintainer of the open source kernel to learn how to behave better.
For many years, Torvalds has been infamous for his expletive-filled, aggressive outbursts on the Linux Kernel Mailing List (LKML), chewing out developers who submit patches that he believes aren't up to the standards necessary for the kernel. He's defended this behavior in the face of pushback from other developers, insisting that people being nice to one another was an American ideology.
But that may be coming to an end. In a lengthy email posted to the LKML on Sunday night, Torvalds expressed a change of heart. Taken to task over attacks that he recognizes were "unprofessional and uncalled for," he says he now recognizes that his behavior was "not OK" and he is "truly sorry." He's going to step back from kernel development for a while—something he's done before while developing the Git source control system—so that he can "get help on how to behave differently."
It's not entirely clear what precipitated this change, though Torvalds did mention a little of the backstory. The Linux Maintainer Summit, an invitation-only gathering of around 30 core Linux developers, takes place each year to provide a venue for kernel maintainers to discuss issues around the kernel's development process. This year's summit was due to be in Vancouver but was moved earlier this month to Edinburgh after it turned out that Torvalds had mistakenly booked a vacation in Scotland that clashed with the Vancouver event.
This situation presented two options: stay in Vancouver without Torvalds or move to Edinburgh with Torvalds. Torvalds himself preferred the first option, but this idea was met with resistance, suggesting that Torvalds' behavior, which is known to have driven some developers away from kernel development entirely, was one of the issues that the maintainers wanted to discuss. Accordingly, the decision was made to move to Edinburgh to fit in with his vacation. That such a disruptive change of venue should occur indicates there's considerable strength of feeling about Torvalds' presence.
Simultaneously with this, the Linux project now has a code of conduct. Previously, the project had a "code of conflict": a short document that asserts that the code quality is the only thing that matters and implores developers to "be excellent to each other." The new code of conduct is more extensive and sets explicit standards for behavior, requiring it to be positive, professional, welcoming, and inclusive.
Together, these changes represent a big shake-up of the kernel development process and style. Of course, it remains to be seen whether anything will actually change—old habits die hard, after all. Kernel developer and Torvalds critic Matthew Garrett tweeted that the changes are a "long overdue step in the right direction" but that he'll "believe it when [he sees] some actual change." By contrast, many denizens of the /r/Linux subreddit are unimpressed, dismissing the code of conduct as made up by a "completely insane and bigoted individual" and claiming that "millenial [sic] snowflakes finally got to him."

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I love you guys, but some should become aware of what is really going on.
(I got thrown out in jury selection long ago when I told the Prosecutor this! LOL)

Above, Linus says it, again. Dated? Yes. Irrelevant? No.

Those who dismiss the past as irrelevant are doomed to make the same mistakes over and over. In doing so, too many lives lost in defending Freedoms we are now allowing to slip away become irrelevant, too. Not in my book.

Granted, there may be nothing much we can do about it, but to those striving for enlightenment, awareness makes all the difference! At least, they may be somewhat prepared mentally and spiritually when "the s#!+ hits the fan."

My grandfathers taught me to be an Observer. I guess "old habits do die hard!" So, no apologies from this end, for this thread. And I do wish you the best!

-- an Observer and a friend of Bill W,
sp331yi
 
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I like that photo / video of Linus letting Nvidia know what he thinks of them.

I believe Nvidia will always be closed source with their code which is their right.

Personally I've never been an Nvidia fan even in my days of using Windows XP although do own several of their high end graphics cards acquired from gamer's I know.

As it stands Linux works great OOTB on all of my Frankenstein builds for what I use my computers for which is basic stuff.

I think the new releases work better than previous releases and I have no complaints with systemd or sysvinit or with snaps.

Linux the smart choice for smart people. Windows for everyone else. :p:D
 

Tolkem

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Those who dismiss the past as irrelevant are doomed to make the same mistakes over and over. In doing so, too many lives lost in defending Freedoms we are now allowing to slip away become irrelevant, too. Not in my book.
I didn't say/mean that article from 2014 was/is irrelevant, at least not in its entirety but I do wonder if the problems Linus addresed on it are, are they? Do we care if Linus doesn't get along with some kernel developer? Cause that's what the article is mainly about since the bug was/is fixed https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/linus-torvalds-vs-kay-sievers-4175500369/
 

sp331yi

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I really got into Debian with the antiX version termed "Luddite." Take it from there, guys! LOL

BTW -- thanks to darry1966 for starting this thread and for turning me on to Miyo.
 
D

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I really got into Debian with the antiX version termed "Luddite." Take it from there, guys! LOL

BTW -- thanks to darry1966 for starting this thread and for turning me on to Miyo.

That was around the time I started with Linux and my first Linux distro was Debian Wheezy.
 

darry1966

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Well I'm loving systemd. Running plain as varnish Debian with XFCE on an HP DV6000 which had a problems with a lot of distros. With this having done a net install so far is flipping fast and solid.
 


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