• Rob's side project: I recently started Gun-Forums.com and we currently have a $100 raffle - if you're into guns, join up and enter the raffle to win $100.00. Raffle Link

Linux Devs vs Ignorant Fascists

David Kruse

New Member
As you all know, the Social Justice Warriors (who I now call Ignorant Fascists, because I find the other term misleading) have infiltrated the Linux community, and are trying to ban many Linux developers because of their illogical ideologies, leading to many of the same Linux developers to retract the license to their code in protest. I'm 100% on the developers side. However, here's what I'd recommend to avoid potential problems for the internet, among other things:
Bypass the Code of Conduct, and share your software under your name and without a license. You still want to create and share their software for people to use, so how you can do that is by sharing a burned copy with people you know and trust, and then having them give a copy to people they know and trust, and so on and so forth. However, some open-source software is owned by a company (ex: Android being owned by Google). To avoid being stifled by that, I'd recommend creating your own software and promoting that instead. In terms of getting paid, one thing I'd recommend is setting up a P.O. box, listing it somewhere on the screen, and having donations sent there. With less developers choosing to participate in this rise to ignorance, fascism, and stupidity, but still wanting to contribute their gifts to society, our current technological world will start to fall apart, but developers have to be the ones that can replace it once it topples over completely.
 


JasKinasis

Well-Known Member
I think as usual, the whole thing is being blown out of proportion on all sides.

Having a code of conduct is hardly a rise to fascism - that's just being overly dramatic.

So if I understand the situation - some of the Linux devs want to run home crying, taking their ball with them because somebody told them to play nicely with the other kids? I mean, really?!

How childish?! They want to deliberately bring ruin to a project that so many people have contributed to over the years and that so many other people rely on, simply because of the introduction of a code of conduct? Pathetic! I thought the Linux kernel development community were a bit more thick-skinned than that!

I'll admit, I've only heard about the new COC. I haven't actually read it. So I don't know any of the wording of it. I know some people are worried that they will get booted for past actions.

Personally I don't think anybody in the kernel community should be banned for things that have happened in the past. When the COC takes effect, it should mean a clean slate for everybody. A fresh start!

However, after it has been introduced - if people continue behaving in a hostile/toxic manner that is in breach of the COC - there should be some punitive process in place. Perhaps a warning for a first offence and a temporary ban for a second offence and a third strike means out. Maybe warnings can be cleared after a certain amount of time with no further offenses. Maybe the bans can be temporary too and life-time bans only for the worst offenders - IDK?!


At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what you do in life. There is one golden rule that should never be broken and that is - don't be a dick to other people!

Just don't be a dick to other people and everything will be fine! What is so hard about that?!

When emailing in a mailing list, is it really so difficult to stay professional and give honest feedback and/or discuss things rationally? Without stooping to using personal insults or threats? Obviously it's something that Linus and certain other kernel developers have struggled with at times over the years. And I get it.... Everybody's personality is different. But still - there is no need for that kind of behaviour in any community. It is toxic and counter-productive. It pushes people away from the community, rather than encouraging them to actively participate.

Rather than belittling someone when they screw up - wouldn't it be better to offer some kind of guidance/mentoring, or at the very least - some vaguely constructive criticism so they can avoid making similar mistakes in the future and improve their code?

Insulting them is not going to make them want to continue contributing towards the project is it? It's just going to drive people away. And that kind of thing has been happening for years!

I mean, sure - the kernel community has a LOT of active contributors. So perhaps the old way of doing things was a slightly more brutal way to remove weaker members of the herd. But it creates a toxic environment and alienates people who want to get involved!

On the flip-side of that - there are a lot of people out there who are too easily offended nowadays - who could do with winding their necks in a bit and stop taking things so personally, or in some cases - completely out of context. These kinds of people desperately need to gain a sense of perspective.

Sometimes the people who get most offended can be bigger dicks than the people causing the offence in the first place.

But from my viewpoint - as long as the wording of the COC is reasonable, fair and rational, having it will not a bad thing. But if it has a ton of stupid, irrational clauses in it - it's going to create more unnecessary friction and the community will be no better off than when there was no COC.

So I don't know - it's a bit of a "swings and roundabouts" kind of situation!

If things really go south with the Linux kernel, I suppose there is always GNU Hurd to fall back on?!
 

wizardfromoz

Super Moderator
Staff member
Gold Supporter

poorguy

Well-Known Member
I'm not going to worry about Linux going to hell as I just don't see it happening.

I have to agree with The Fu from the Ubuntu forum on this subject matter.

https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2401956

Linux ain't going to hell because Linus Torvalds is burned out and acts like an asshole.

No reason for any panic in the Linux community.

My few little bits.

Life is good. :)
 

Condobloke

Well-Known Member
Linus Torvalds.
Linus Torvalds oversees every line of code added to the Linux kernel, but in recent years the male-dominated community has become increasingly divided, reports BBC. Rows about sexism and rudeness led to the creation of a Code of Conflict (CoC) in 2015 which was short -- simply recommending people "be excellent to each other." That has now been replaced by a more detailed Code of Conduct -- which retains the acronym, but attempts to be more inclusive and eliminate insulting and derogatory comments and behaviour. Reader sinij writes: Recently Linux Community adopted a new controversial Code of Conduct authored by Contributor Covenant also known for authoring the Post-Meritocracy Manifesto. In an exclusive email interview with the BBC, Mr Torvalds shared his thoughts on his decision to temporarily step aside, the controversy behind the CoC, and the defects of the community he set up. His thoughts on CoC: The advantage of concentrating on technology is that you can have some mostly objective measures, and some basis for agreement, and you can have a very nice and healthy community around it all. I really am motivated by the technology, but the community around Linux has been a big positive too. But there are very tangible and immediate common goals in any technical project like Linux, and while there is occasionally disagreement about how to solve some particular issue, there is a very real cohesive force in that common goal of improving the project. And even when there are disagreements, people in the end often have fairly clear and objective measures of what is better. Code that is faster, simpler, or handles more cases naturally is just objectively 'better', without people really having to argue too much about it.

In contrast, the arguments about behaviour never seem to end up having a common goal. Except, in some sense, the argument itself. Have you read the Twitter feeds and other things by the people who seem to care more about the non-technical side? I think your 'hyped stories' is about as polite as you can put it. It's a morass of nastiness. Instead of a 'common goal', you end up with horrible fighting between different 'in-groups'. It's very polarising, and both sides love egging the other side on. It's not even a 'discussion', it's just people shouting at each other. That's actually the reason I for the longest time did not want to be involved with the whole CoC discussion in the first place. That whole subject seems to very easily just devolve and become unproductive. And I found a lot of the people who pushed for a CoC and criticised me for cursing to be hypocritical and pointless. I could easily point you to various tweet storms by people who criticise my 'white cis male' behaviour, while at the same time cursing more than I ever do.

So that's my excuse for dismissing a lot of the politically correct concerns for years. I felt it wasn't worth it. Anybody who uses the words 'white cis male privilege' was simply not worth my time even talking to, I felt. "And I'm still not apologising for my gender or the colour of my skin, or the fact that I happen to have the common sexual orientation. What changed? Maybe it was me, but I was also made very aware of some of the behaviour of the 'other' side in the discussion. Because I may have my reservations about excessive political correctness, but honestly, I absolutely do not want to be seen as being in the same camp as the low-life scum on the internet that think it's OK to be a white nationalist Nazi, and have some truly nasty misogynistic, homophobic or transphobic behaviour. And those people were complaining about too much political correctness too, and in the process just making my public stance look bad. And don't get me wrong, please -- I'm not making excuses for some of my own rather strong language. But I do claim that it never ever was any of that kind of nastiness. I got upset with bad code, and people who made excuses for it, and used some pretty strong language in the process. Not good behaviour, but not the racist/etc claptrap some people spout. So in the end, my 'I really don't want to be too PC' stance simply became untenable. Partly because you definitely can find some emails from me that were simply completely unacceptable, and I need to fix that going forward. But to a large degree also because I don't want to be associated with a lot of the people who complain about excessive political correctness.


political correctness?...white male privilege ?........Get a grip Linux !!

""but in recent years the male-dominated community has become increasingly divided"".......I wonder by whom has it been divided ?:rolleyes:
 

poorguy

Well-Known Member
Right On Condobloke.

It seems with today's generation that even a fart has to be politically correct or someone will be upset or offended.

I agree with you and I'm tired of trying to please everyone and it seems there's is no individuality any more with today's generation. :mad:

Perhaps I've grown to old and I've become to out dated for today's generation. :cool:
 

David Kruse

New Member
Right On Condobloke.

It seems with today's generation that even a fart has to be politically correct or someone will be upset or offended.

I agree with you and I'm tired of trying to please everyone and it seems there's is no individuality any more with today's generation. :mad:

Perhaps I've grown to old and I've become to out dated for today's generation. :cool:
Thankfully there are people of this generation who, despite being drowned out of the limelight by attention-hungry, borderline-insane sheeple, will eventually overthrow the system that rules over everyone and everything. Thankfully I'm one of them.
 

Condobloke

Well-Known Member
I prefer to see it as today's generation don't have sufficient 'date' to keep up with me.....
 

Condobloke

Well-Known Member
I'm trying to get rid of my outbursts, and be more polite about things, but technically wrong is still technically wrong, and I won't start accepting bad code just to make people feel better about themselves.
prior to 'learning polite'...he may have said..."Suck it up and get over it Princess"...(+ a few other phrases which are not repeatable here)
 

wizardfromoz

Super Moderator
Staff member
Gold Supporter
Perhaps I've grown to old and I've become to out dated for today's generation. :cool:
If I were in not so humble mode, then I would say you are in good company here, Mate :)

But rather than derail the OP's Thread content, I would ask David whether he has read the previous Code, and can comment on the differences which he finds offensive?

Wiz
 

wizardfromoz

Super Moderator
Staff member
Gold Supporter
I'm setting up seating Paul, for The Oblivious, you can join me there if you like? There's popcorn.

Wizard
 

VP9KS

Well-Known Member
I'm setting up seating Paul, for The Oblivious, you can join me there if you like? There's popcorn.

Wizard
Popcorn, you say?! Well count me in then!!:D:D By the way, I thought hard about doing the re-install, but then I just used the slackware scratch drive that I set up to experiment with modifying the kernel. Since I had not had the time to bork it yet, I am using it. Problem solved! (always carry a spare, mate!)Easy peasy!:rolleyes::p

Happy Trails,
Paul
 
Who benefits financially from the Social Justice Worriers code of conduct in Linux?

Treat this for what it is, an attempt to divide the Linux community and damage Linux as a viable operating system.

Don’t try to police people’s language and conduct to make a ‘safe space’ for snowflakes and SJWs. These useful idiots are doing the dirty work of large commercial interests. While there should not be overt bullying if developers are not up to the rough and tumble of robust discussions as code is developed then they should just go back to their fairy gardens and play with their unicorns.

“Some basic conduct rules” doesn’t include witch hunts by feminists and SJW’s as acceptable. All those involved in the witch hunts should be excluded from Linux groups with prejudice. Telling people that “Their conduct has to change.” is in itself unacceptable behaviour. Do you also consider it OK to discriminate against people for the sexual preferences if they are a BDSM Top? Or for the politics if they have strong opinions on that big spending, big government, high taxing, socialist, Donald Trump?

Shove your ‘code of conduct’ into a place the sun doesn’t shine.
 


Members online


Top